toe & camber kits ~ vs rolling resistance

[CapriRacer]

I think you'd be ahead reading Fred Puhn's book - How to make your car handle.

How to Make Your Car Handle: Fred Puhn: 9780912656465: Amazon.com: Books

While the book is a bit old and is geared towards race cars, the principles don't change over time and knowing those principles will help you sort things out.

Important point from the book: Suspensions can either change camber or change track width - one or the other (or both!) - and that affects how the vehicle responds to changes.

(or maybe I got that from Carroll Smith's books. Can't remember!)

[j12piprius]

Thanks to previous comments and this diy article, I cut an old level down to 23 inches, taped on a couple of spacers, and measured the camber on my civic this morning. A digital caliber would be more accurate than my ruler, but these measurements are probably quite close. This conversion chart was helpful converting mm to degrees.

driver front camber . . . . passenger front
+ .30 degrees . . . . . . . - .30 degrees

L back . . . . . . . . . . . . . R back
- 1.04 degrees . . . . . . - 1.49 degrees

I'm surprised the camber is not that much in the back but still want to reduce it as most of my driving is straight and not around curves. The exception is a couple of 90 degree curves going down a 7 percent grade, that I usually go around in 4th gear. I hope to check toe in the next couple of days.

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by johnlvs2run

Thanks to previous comments and this diy article, I cut an old level down to 23 inches, taped on a couple of spacers, and measured the camber on my civic this morning. A digital caliber would be more accurate than my ruler, but these measurements are probably quite close. This conversion chart was helpful converting mm to degrees.

driver front camber . . . . passenger front
+ .30 degrees . . . . . . . - .30 degrees

L back . . . . . . . . . . . . . R back
- 1.04 degrees . . . . . . - 1.49 degrees

I'm surprised the camber is not that much in the back but still want to reduce it as most of my driving is straight and not around curves. The exception is a couple of 90 degree curves going down a 7 percent grade, that I usually go around in 4th gear. I hope to check toe in the next couple of days.

Just looking at those readings makes me think the driveway wasn't level. You need to be careful here.

[j12piprius]

The measurements were done in the garage where the concrete is perfectly level side to side, and the result matches my previous observation of the tread.

Originally Posted by johnlvs2run

IThe front driver side tire has a positive camber, about a 1/4 inch of the inside tread is hardly worn, and the outside of the tread sets down slightly before the inside of the tread.

The steering is fine, so I'm thinking to get 4 bolts and add 2 washers to each one in the back, which would bring the back camber down 1 degree on each side, instead of a camber kit. However I still need to measure the toe in the meantime.

[oldtamiyaphile]

Originally Posted by CapriRacer

Just looking at those readings makes me think the driveway wasn't level. You need to be careful here.

He could turn the car around and try again just to be safe. A spirit level isn't considered an engineering tool, nor is string. 0.6 degrees seems well within the margin of error of such a system. I wonder if anyone's compared a DIY alignment to a professional one?

[some_other_dave]

The car would not have come with nearly that much negative camber in the back. Since the camber isn't adjustable normally, I would guess that the car probably has been lowered. It might be from springs that are broken or even just sagging, or it might be that someone put lowering springs on it. It's not that uncommon for springs to break on older Civics--so it's worth checking.

The uneven camber makes me think that either the floor actually is uneven where you were measuring, or the car has been hit or curbed hard. Or you have some sort of odd measurement error. Worth looking at the suspension bits to see if anything is bent.

Finally, all that said you should not see excessive tire wear with 1.5 degrees of negative camber--as long as the toe angle is OK. If the wheels have toe-out in conjunction with negative camber, that's when you start getting lots of wear on the inner shoulder. Correct the toe, and you should see the tire wear get rather more reasonable.

My CRX had about 1.5 degrees negative camber all around from lowering it, and tire wear was pretty even the whole way around. Because the toe was in spec.

-soD

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by some_other_dave

The car would not have come with nearly that much negative camber in the back.......

Believe it or not, the spec is -1° ± 1°

Yup, it came from the factory that way.

[ssnsvibe09]

I aligned an old car once in my garage but just using a tape measure, and modified short laser level that I could hold against the flat part of the outer rim but cleared the hub assembly. I only did the basic adjustments of toe. but made for cheap confimation of camber and front to rear axle alignment. if i recall, i had about a dozen marks on the floor under the car and about 6 more infront of it.