Toe set to 0: results (front end alignment)

[California98Civic]

Originally Posted by AlVal

Have a read guys:

google search for "the effect of wheel alignment on rolling resistance - a literature search and analysis" from the US EPA

Thanks. I did the search and found the full text of the article here. My link to it opens to page six, which summarizes and recommends in plain language. There are plenty of equations, tables, graphs and diagrams. Seems in 1978, EPA concluded the relationship between alignment, rolling resistance, and fuel economy was "significant." I need an alignment and found a place to set it according to requested specs.

[graesack]

I used to have a Nissan Sentra I had set to "0" for autocrossing. Turn-in was improved. No problems on highway. Agree that front drivers increase tow-in under power. Plan to check out the alignment on my new Prius c.

All the best.

[redorchestra]

here are the results of a recent alignment.
technition would not set rear to zero because i have negative camber. he said negative camber calls for positive toe.

[graesack]

My understanding is a front-driver can handle "0" toe in front because as slack is taken up under power the front wheels try to toe-in. The reverse is true in the rear. Those wheels are being dragged along and toe-in will be less than at rest. I hope I'm making sense.

All the best

[3dplane]

redorchestra- He is right! If camber is not readily adjustable(most cars are not) and negative camber developed (always does as suspension components wear and get "tired") but still within specs, the resultant inside edge tire wear can be offset with adding toe in as specs allow to stay within limits.

I do alignments almost every day but only recently got around to do my own car as new front tires went on.

Here is my before:


And after:


Actually not bad for a car with over 200 000 miles on it and never checked by me before.
I guess I could have opened up the rear toe a little bit.. On the front I decided to do a slight toe out (but get it within specs) as a compromise between pulse or cruising (it will toe in slightly) and coasting / or when slowing down with the brakes (slight toe out).

I've been reading the conversations about alignments on this site (not necessarily in this thread) and I see people getting very picky with the numbers to be exactly even side to side etc.
I just want to say that some vehicle's specs actually compensate for road crown (leaning to the right) so camber and caster specs will not be the same from side to side!

On my images you can not see this screen,but there are cross caster and cross camber displays that also have to stay within specs and sometimes even if those geometries ARE adjustable (like most trucks), the alignment can be a challenge and it is always a compromise.

So unless the customer has a specific concern, (which I always try to find out before I do an alignment) when you get those parameters "green" or within specs, you are done!

People usually will not realize how little of an imperfection it takes to be out of specs!
I would bet that while we are driving down the road, most or even all the parameters are continuously going in and out of specs according to road surface changes, loading/items/cargo in the vehicle,heck even the weight of the driver!

Unfortunately I see very few vehicles factory equipped with fully adjustable front and rear suspensions (caster,camber,toe). Those are usually fun to do!

Have fun!
Barna

[redorchestra]

that printout is great! so much better to draw a picturethan build a table.

[redorchestra]

i still dont know if the alignment has done anything to my mileage, but i do have a tiny bit of anecdotal evidence that it has improved something.

there is a big hill that i have to climbon my daily commute. it is on a twinned highway and it is pretty steep. (going down the hill, coasting my car accerates from 95km/h to about 110km/h.)
i set my cruise control to 95km/h and before i started ecomodding the transmission would drop to a lower gear at the bottom of the hill.
after a grill block i could get to the middle of the hill before dropping down a gear.
After the alignment i can clear the hill without dropping down a gear. ^•^

[suspectnumber961]

I've just decided to set front and back toe to ZERO....due to DIY inaccuracies.

Every time I recheck things the toe is off some (front and back)....so I'm going to try do it 2xs / year.

If I had to guess...most cars on the road are "way out" by 3 to 6 months after they are aligned....bumps and potholes?

[California98Civic]

At long last, I got my alignment checked and reset today (was waiting for completion of tranny swap, half-axel replacement, and final wheel size and tire choice).

Went for zero toe all around, despite fact that slightly negative might be best on rear when under power. I do a lot of coasting.

I have no idea how to judge any benefit, but the car felt great while driving home. And I learned that the bushings at the rear are wearing-out and that the right rear camber control arm needs replacing.





Coast 60$ but I had probably never had alignment adjusted before... this is mostly maintaining the car and getting a mod in for free.

[Galane]

You got a shop to do the alignment the way you desired, AND to center it? Most places I've taken cars to for alignment just get it "within specified range" even if that range goes some to either side of zero and they have one side positive and one side negative.

If alignment techs put in the effort to get it RIGHT the first time they would have far fewer come backs for poor handling.

Another problem is shops that will do an adjustment even when worn parts make it impossible to get it accurate or for the adjustment to stay. The shop you took yours to shouldn't have done a thing to the rear alignment until you got the worn parts replaced or had them replace them.