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Old 05-06-2009, 02:30 PM   #1 (permalink)
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U.S. Scrappage Scheme Moving Forward

Since we last reported on the situation, the two sides have come to an agreement on how to move forward with the scrappage scheme. Both sides have compromised, and a lot of the worst parts (like that American-only clause) have been stripped from the proposal, but it’s still nothing to be happy about.Having become even [...]Related posts:
  1. Auto Scrappage Plan May be Coming to the U.S.
  2. Ford Upgrades Trucks for “Super Fuel Economy”
  3. Toyota Claims Bigger Engine are Better for Fuel Economy

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Old 05-07-2009, 10:46 AM   #2 (permalink)
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so my 1981 Comutacar and my 50mpg 1970 subaru 360 will need to be scrapped under their plan because they are old an inefficient?

Nah, but I have a feeling the underlying causes might enventually make it read that way as they aren't doing it as much for efficiency as a bailout.
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Old 05-07-2009, 12:40 PM   #3 (permalink)
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According to that article, they don't NEED to be scrapped, but they may be and you won't get any kind of rebate unless that car's EPA is less than the one you're buying to replace it.

Don't the japanese have a much more agressive scrapping program for engines?

I totally agree that a 1mpg EPA difference does not warrant a big government check. How about "scrap your vehicle and buy a replacement having 20% better EPA rating and we'll give you x dollars". This way there is some incentive for all those hummer driving soccer moms to get into a prius. Your list made no mention of ditching a truck in favour of a car.
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Old 05-07-2009, 03:09 PM   #4 (permalink)
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so wait....my audi gets 19mpg (epa rated) so does that mean if I trade it in for a 41mpg Smart car that I won't get the $4500?? The article only mentioned vehicles with less than 18mpg.

This will suck if I can't get the voucher...I was really hoping to do it.
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Old 05-07-2009, 05:38 PM   #5 (permalink)
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MazdaMatt -

Quote:
Originally Posted by MazdaMatt View Post
According to that article, they don't NEED to be scrapped, but they may be and you won't get any kind of rebate unless that car's EPA is less than the one you're buying to replace it.

Don't the japanese have a much more agressive scrapping program for engines?

I totally agree that a 1mpg EPA difference does not warrant a big government check. How about "scrap your vehicle and buy a replacement having 20% better EPA rating and we'll give you x dollars". This way there is some incentive for all those hummer driving soccer moms to get into a prius. Your list made no mention of ditching a truck in favour of a car.
(Someone chime in where I err)

From what I have read, the Japanese market is far more aggressive when it comes to planned obsolescence. They make the re-certification rules so stringent that you almost *have* to buy a new car every 4 years. This helps the Japanese domestic automakers because they have an almost "guaranteed turnover" when it comes to sales at home.

I think this is what makes the JDM aftermarket so lucrative. You can import an otherwise "young healthy" engine from Japan that was too old to pass Japanese certification.

I would have kept the "American Only" clause. Technically it's "my" tax money, so I want it to go to domestic manufacturing.

I would modify the rebate to be a scaling delta-T equation. Forget about a specific before/after MPG. How about $200 for every MPG better than the previous MPG? Changing from :



To :



Would yield => 29 - 15 = 14 => 14 * 200 = $2800

CarloSW2

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Old 05-07-2009, 05:51 PM   #6 (permalink)
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^^ now that's smart!!

Something I don't agree with is the idea that we should be FORCED to buy american with that rebate. I think American manufacturing should compete for itself against the others. I don't want to be forced to buy an inferior product for a discount.

Another thing is, assume I was forced to buy American and I decided to buy a new camaro. Those are made in Canada. I'm not "really" buying american am I?
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Old 05-07-2009, 06:42 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Electric Frenzy -

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Originally Posted by Electric Frenzy View Post
^^ now that's smart!!

Something I don't agree with is the idea that we should be FORCED to buy american with that rebate. I think American manufacturing should compete for itself against the others. I don't want to be forced to buy an inferior product for a discount.

Another thing is, assume I was forced to buy American and I decided to buy a new camaro. Those are made in Canada. I'm not "really" buying american am I?
I agree that it's complicated, but I want to favor American jobs with my tax dollars. A lot of people won't agree with me on this and that's ok. I fully understand and respect your POV, but I still want American jobs to be favored over foreign jobs.

They have a domestic content on automobile stickers. The scale could be modified to reflect that :

Same initial equation: 29 - 15 = 14 => 14 * 200 = $2800

However, let's say that the Pontiac Vibe example only uses 70% domestic content. Multiply the rebate by the ratio :

$2800 * 0.70 = $1960

Here's an article on "domestic content".

A Closer Look at Domestic-Parts Content
Code:
That doesn't mean dealerships are teeming with cars that have 
95 percent domestic content stickers. Those days are behind 
us; Toyota reports that in 2007, the industry as a whole saw 
domestic content ratings decline, and it looks like the trend 
is continuing through 2008 and into 2009. Of the most popular 
cars eligible for last January's American-Made Index, we saw 
an average drop of 3.3 percentage points in domestic content 
between 2007 and 2008. Looking at a few early '09 arrivals, 
like the redesigned Honda Pilot and the Toyota Corolla, it's 
more of the same. Here's how a handful of top U.S.-built 
models fared in the transition to '08 or '09.

    * Ford F-150:               80% domestic content, down from 90% for '07
    * Chevrolet Silverado 1500: 85% for '08, down from 90% for '07
    * Toyota Camry/Solara:      68% for '08, down from 78% for '07
    * Honda Accord:             60% for '08, down from 65% for '07
    * Toyota Corolla:           50% for '09, down from 65% for '08
    * Toyota Matrix:            65% for '09, down from 75% for '08
    * Dodge Ram:                68% for '08, down from 72% for '07
    * Honda Pilot:              70% for '09, same as '08
    * Honda Civic:              70% for '08, up from 55% for '0

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Old 05-07-2009, 06:54 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Just to chime in: I think this program sucks. While the japanese market export their old cars, this plan will be crushing perfectly good cars in large numbers.

Stupid.
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Old 05-08-2009, 02:20 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I wouldn't consider my 1992 Audi 100 as "perfectly good". It's a 100% clunker...hence the name, cash for clunkers. It's no like I'm trading a 2006 Dodge Viper for a prius.

Also, can someone else verify for me (or do I have to wait) that I'll be able to get this credit even though my audi is rated at 19mpg? I've already picked out a lovely new 2009 Smart Passion at my dealer. I told him as soon as the law was signed I'd pick it up.
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Old 05-08-2009, 02:28 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Electric Frenzy -

Here is the latest I can find, but I don't think it has the details you want, :

U.S. House members reach deal on cash for clunkers - May 5, 2009
Quote:
People who drive passenger cars that get less than 18 miles per gallon (based on EPA’s combined city/highway window sticker number) would have to buy a new car getting at least 22 m.p.g. to be eligible for a voucher toward the cost of the new car.

If the new car’s mileage rating is at least 4 m.p.g. higher than the old vehicle, the buyer would get a voucher for $3,500 toward the price of the new car worth $3,500. If the new car’s mileage is at least 10 m.p.g. higher than the old vehicle, the voucher would be worth $4,500.
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