Urba Centurion Update - (Kubota diesel, 100+ MPG in mixed driving - Fall 2012 on)

[sendler]

Originally Posted by changzuki

Makes me sad too
Some birds should never be caged.
Centurion dvrs every trip so there always a terrabyte of "action" on tap

And the beat goes on....

~CrazyJerry

No fuel log for this vehicle anywhere?

[changzuki]

Originally Posted by sendler

No fuel log for this vehicle anywhere?

Good question and honestly, there's no central location for the fuel log however there are plenty of references scattered about...
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First reference here:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post331015
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Another one reference here:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post390660
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Two more great references here:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post391906
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A point A to point B reference for over 235 miles:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post420120
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Then there was this bomb!!! (see the first yellow highlighted row):
https://diesel-bike.com/Centurion/GG..._sort_edit.pdf
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And the current downslide:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post445290
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~CrazyJerry

[sendler]

Originally Posted by changzuki

[B]Good question and honestly, there's no central location for the fuel log however there are plenty of references scattered about...
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Why not use the fuel log right here in the ecomodder garage?

[UltArc]

Originally Posted by sendler

Why not use the fuel log right here in the ecomodder garage?

Agreed, sir. Would love to be able to follow along- though I haven't posted my last three or four tanks... :/

[changzuki]

Originally Posted by sendler

Why not use the fuel log right here in the ecomodder garage?

A fuel log may happen someday but with the target goal of the original Centurion, there needed to be a credible entity like the Green Grand Prix to write it.

Also, given the criticism of the fender mpg stickers, I couldn't for a moment imagine "CrazyJerry's fuel log" would gain an ounce of traction - I mean, really!?.
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And lastly on the fuel log, when you go the majority of the summer on one small tank of fuel, it's kinda easy to forget these things..... Just sayin'..

~CrazyJerry

[sendler]

Originally Posted by changzuki

A fuel log may happen someday but with the target goal of the original Centurion, there needed to be a credible entity like the Green Grand Prix to write it.

One tank competition results with a small top off are prone to fill errors and thermal expansion and don't reflect real driving. Multiple, back to back fill up logs are the only way to see what a vehicle really gets.

[changzuki]

Originally Posted by sendler

One tank competition results with a small top off are prone to fill errors and thermal expansion and don't reflect real driving. Multiple, back to back fill up logs are the only way to see what a vehicle really gets.

Could you give me a specific example of where my thermal expansion is coming from on Centurion?

~CrazyJerry

[changzuki]

Originally Posted by sendler

One tank competition results with a small top off are prone to fill errors and thermal expansion and don't reflect real driving. Multiple, back to back fill up logs are the only way to see what a vehicle really gets.

Ladies and Gentlemen of the J-J-J-J-Jury.....

Looking back at the postings in this thread let's look at a few items of interest and see how they fit-in with this most interesting drive-by statement above....

#1) I drove roughly 231 miles south to the hotel in Horseheads. The start of the trip was on secondary roads and then down I-81 and eventually though a couple of towns in-stop-n-go traffic. Also, it was really, really, windy that day. The weather channel reported 40mph winds and these were mostly (but not all) met head-on. When I arrived in the hotel parking lot I still had plenty of fuel in my two-gallon tank but the fill-up for Stage 1 wasn't until the following morning. What is the relevance of this? Well it would appear that leg #1 of my journey was in REAL driving conditions and fill up #1 was about to happen the following morning (probably when it was cooler out too...) So much for the thermal expansion theory on that fill-up...

#2) The fill-up at Valero in the morning was my first fill up for the entire event and took all of about 30 seconds. At the pump using only the 231 mile figure to the hotel, (plus the REAL drive to Valero that I didn't even figure in because the fuel officials had me reset my odometer at that time so I could only use the written down mileage from Colton to the hotel) and the pump reading of 1.34 gallons gave me my first reported mpg of leg #1. It was 172mpg...

#3) Stage 1 ... Having been to the Green Grand Prix Sendler, I suspect you remember that really steep hill up that goes all the way up to the track. It is impressive and about as REAL as any hill I've ever been up. And keep in mind, that "hill" that goes all the way up to the racetrack is part of the Stage 1 mpg figures. Most people in normal driving are not likely to encounter a hill of that magnitude, at least not up here in the Adirondacks.

In addition, this thread has many screenshots of the actual event when on the Watkins Glen track. Using those images and video, plus any aerial and/or elevation maps of the track, I invite anyone to to please illustrate how the track is somehow different than typical geography encountered while driving... I mean - wow.....

Anyway, Stage 1 isn't a 5 minute romp across the boardwalk; It's over 100 miles and roughly 2.5 hours on that gorgeous track - but somehow - that's not REAL driving...(no corners, no hills, no traffic, no mandatory pitstop to break your stride and certainly no speed limits, oh well you get the idea...)

After the track is lunch. Yes, the cars stay at the track (in the garage area) for a period of time and probably lose much of the "thermal expansion" they generated during the laps... Following that was my extended trip back down to the pump.. Extended because I went the wrong way as did others (screenshots from the in-car dvr validate this).. So finally at the conclusion of the cool rain/mist filled drive to the Valero, we have fill up #2 of my trip. And that was... well....record breaking... and 200+ mpg is an accurate statement. For this discussion I'm fine with just the 200mpg though (at this point - it's just easier...)

#4) Having just filled up I was now ready to get sick and vomit all over Watkins Glen (which I did). With no relief in sight after an hour, I decided to head home on my full 2-gallon tank of fuel. Because I felt like death warmed over, I took an alternate route home. Due north to I-90, then east to Syracuse, and then North up I-81. The last 1.5 hours of the trip are on secondary roads.. The conditions were without the horrible headwind encountered on the way down, it was significantly hotter, and I drove Centurion nearly at the 3000 rpm limit to get home sooner so I could die in peace.. But, I guess none of this represented any REAL driving either.. There were 2 stops and one was to confirm a phone call with Sheepdog 44, about the awards results. The second was an attempt to eat - that was a waste of money.. Anyway, I got home and crashed big time. Centurion would have to wait until morning to get a the 2-gallon tank filled one last time.. But then that would mean it would lose it's thermal expansion from the trip home.!! Geez! What are the chances? That morning's fill resulted in just over 190mpg...

So, a quick recap:
Three distinct back-to-back legs of the journey:
--231+ miles down
--100 plus miles for Stage 1
--250+ miles on the return trip

Three distinct back-to-back "non-thermal expansion retaining" - fill ups:
---172mpg
---200+ mpg
---190 and a whisker mpg

If anyone there has ever watched "My Cousin Vinny", you'll understand at this stage, how I can relate to Vinny!

The defense rests....

~CrazyJerry
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References:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post419516

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post420120

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post424424

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post423946

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post430493

[sendler]

Everyone here would agree that the best way to tell what economy a vehicle gets is by logging several back to back tanks. Your tank is small so the thermal expansion errors will be less but they can be substantial in competition for something like an Insight with a 11 gallon tank and such a small amount needed to top off. It works like this. You show up to the competition which starts early in the morning, empty or with a cold, overnight tank. Fill the tank to the brim with fuel out of the ground which is at 10*C. Go to the track and drive your 130 miles. All the while the fuel is flowing to the hot engine area and back to the tank through the return line. You go back to the station to fill up again except you have used 1 gallon out of the tank and now it is at 30*C. That 10 gallons that should be left now measures 10.2 due to the thermal expansion of gas at 1% per 10*C. So the consumption is measured at .8 gallon instead of 1.0. The 130 mpg just became 162.5

[changzuki]

Originally Posted by sendler

Everyone here would agree that the best way to tell what economy a vehicle gets is by logging several back to back tanks. Your tank is small so the thermal expansion errors will be less but they can be substantial in competition for something like an Insight with a 11 gallon tank and such a small amount needed to top off. It works like this. You show up to the competition which starts early in the morning, empty or with a cold, overnight tank. Fill the tank to the brim with fuel out of the ground which is at 10*C. Go to the track and drive your 130 miles. All the while the fuel is flowing to the hot engine area and back to the tank through the return line. You go back to the station to fill up again except you have used 1 gallon out of the tank and now it is at 30*C. That 10 gallons that should be left now measures 10.2 due to the thermal expansion of gas at 1% per 10*C. So the consumption is measured at .8 gallon instead of 1.0. The 130 mpg just became 162.5

Sorry Sendler - you're posting above is incorrect in regards to Centurion. If you took the time to actually look at my postings you'd see the "details"... In the pic below, the supposed heated return line to the tank you speak of does not exist - so therefore the tank of fuel is not heated.. I guess I just got lucky on that detail... Right???
~CrazyJerry
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