Urba Centurion Update - (Kubota diesel, 100+ MPG in mixed driving - Fall 2012 on)

[ME_Andy]

Give the guy a break, he gets 150+ mpg.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by changzuki

[B]So, a quick recap:

Was that so hard? A fuel log with numbers like that would be very impressive and easy for visitors to see at a glance. And the average will post right under your signature.

[changzuki]

Originally Posted by sendler

Was that so hard? A fuel log with numbers like that would be very impressive and easy for visitors to see at a glance. And the average will post right under your signature.

Sendler,
Please don't be confused by the mpg numbers roughly five posts ago with an actual fuel log...I posted these numbers in one place on your behalf because you seemed quite confused, and maybe even doubtful, by the Green Grand Prix figures thus envoking the following response after I stated exactly why I didn't use a fuel log:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler:
One tank competition results with a small top off are prone to fill errors and thermal expansion and don't reflect real driving. Multiple, back to back fill up logs are the only way to see what a vehicle really gets.
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Then 8 minutes after I posted my back-to-back trip distances/details, you still seemed even more confused by applying an incorrect/fabricated scenario as to how Centurion pulled its mpg figures. In your words :
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler:
Everyone here would agree that the best way to tell what economy a vehicle gets is by logging several back to back tanks. Your tank is small so the thermal expansion errors will be less but they can be substantial in competition for something like an Insight with a 11 gallon tank and such a small amount needed to top off. It works like this. You show up to the competition which starts early in the morning, empty or with a cold, overnight tank. Fill the tank to the brim with fuel out of the ground which is at 10*C. Go to the track and drive your 130 miles. All the while the fuel is flowing to the hot engine area and back to the tank through the return line. You go back to the station to fill up again except you have used 1 gallon out of the tank and now it is at 30*C. That 10 gallons that should be left now measures 10.2 due to the thermal expansion of gas at 1% per 10*C. So the consumption is measured at .8 gallon instead of 1.0. The 130 mpg just became 162.5
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Just wanted to clarify that what I posted was simply a response to help you with your postings - is not a fuel log.

Cheers!

~CrazyJerry

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[BobS]

Friend Jerry,
I believe what Sendler is hoping for is some alternative partial explanation for your car's fantastic, almost unbelievable, performance. But it's not you he is trying to put down with his analysis, it's the rest of us he is trying to help. Why? Cause you set the bar so high! I am waiting to move to a new location and when I do, I fully intend to build a Morgan-like 3 wheeler. But if that machine doesn't get at least 100 mph, will I feel like coming on here bragging about it? Mmm, probably. But under 80 mpg? Mmm.

Maybe we could set up a Jerry's Corner with Rod Serling doing the intro video over a sign that says something like: If you enter here, don't panic. We define success as EPA + 50%.

Jerry, we love ya, bro. Under no circumstances take this as any kind of criticism, cause it aint. Believe it or not, we will all definitely be there to cheer when you show us 100 mpg at 100 mph.

[changzuki]

Originally Posted by BobS

Friend Jerry,
I believe what Sendler is hoping for is some alternative partial explanation for your car's fantastic, almost unbelievable, performance. But it's not you he is trying to put down with his analysis, it's the rest of us he is trying to help. Why? Cause you set the bar so high! I am waiting to move to a new location and when I do, I fully intend to build a Morgan-like 3 wheeler. But if that machine doesn't get at least 100 mph, will I feel like coming on here bragging about it? Mmm, probably. But under 80 mpg? Mmm.

Maybe we could set up a Jerry's Corner with Rod Serling doing the intro video over a sign that says something like: If you enter here, don't panic. We define success as EPA + 50%.

Jerry, we love ya, bro. Under no circumstances take this as any kind of criticism, cause it aint. Believe it or not, we will all definitely be there to cheer when you show us 100 mpg at 100 mph.

BobS,
Nice cover for Sendler, but if anyone is looking for an explanation for Centurion's success they simply need to take the time to read this Centurion thread. Fabricating scenarios to help explain something is not what I'd call "looking for an alternative explanation".

As far as trying to help goes - this entire thread is very transparent with the exact intention of showing the details that one can do beyond what the original Centurion plans call for - but it requires reading and comprehension to understand how such things have helped (I thought the bore/stroke and timing issues were a key piece and prime example). The entire pre-during-post Green Grand Prix event has been extensively covered (with video too boot) - is there another thread this extensively covered I should use as a template instead?

Thanks for the compliment but I never set any bar. What I did is to take a proven design and revive it with many things I believe work. Then, rather than have anyone take my word for the successes, I was very upfront with my decision to go to the GGP (complete with 4 in-car cameras alongside approx 42 or so other competitors). It's one of the few events that are actually within my grasp to attend.

Most of what I've shown is not touched upon by most people so I freely share the info in hopes someone else will share in similar successes if they so choose to try them.. It's not bragging. My goodness - would it be better or more believable if I toned it down a bit? Or just left the GGP results with no details at all?

Also, save your cheers. I have no intention of going 100mph at 100mpg. I've exceeded what I started out to do and also predicted the outcome. If all of this is too much too soon please let me know because the current Centurion thread is going in another direction and will be more complex (in my opinion).. After reading your post, would you think it's more helpful to just end it?

~CrazyJerry

[Xist]

I do not know why it would be difficult believe that the lightest, smallest, and least powerful car featured in these forums would be the most fuel efficient. Has anyone asked hard questions about the 50 MPG truck that has not been to a mileage competition?

Crazy Jerry, please keep up the good work.

[sendler]

None of the links you posted in #201 mentions anything about the fuel economy other than the one that takes you to the first page of the thread that mentions an average of 107 mpg and a high of 124. And one that shows a photo where you have written 127 on the fender.
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http://ecomodder.com/forum/446847-post201.html
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Re the Green Grand Prix:
I am not fabricating any scenario about your car specifically. Just trying to get you to realize that ALL of the competitors achieve artificially high results that are not repeatable in the real world that an honest and continuous fuel log would show. I have seen stock Insights post 130 mpg at the GGP in a car that could never break 75 mpg in a real day to day highway commute. Due among other things to advanced driving technique that is impractical to use on the highway such as EOC and the hilly nature of the track which favors it. And other factors such as the inevitable fill errors that come from such small quantities of use that would get averaged out if multiple back to back tanks were logged. I have achieved 130 mpgUS at the GGP on my CBR250R two consecutive years but don't go around telling people it is a 130 mpg bike because my log shows that it only gets 95. And most "normal riders" on Fuelly get 70.
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If you want us to know what the car really gets you should start a fuel log.

[redneck]

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[cowmeat]

It's awesome what you've done with it, but I'd have to agree that a daily driving fuel log and your instant mpg showing in your posts would be epic!

I'd love to see what it could do on my daily commute!

On a closed course track without any stops and starts, at 45-50 mph I'm sure I could average way over 100 mpg in the Turtle, too. Turtle is a 14 year old stock, out of the box production car. But since I don't get to do that on a daily basis, those numbers wouldn't mean much to me, maybe just for bragging rights.

Drive that beast to work for six months and post the numbers as you go, and you'll get a dozen people here to build one!

[redneck]

Originally Posted by cowmeat

On a closed course track without any stops and starts, at 45-50 mph I'm sure I could average way over 100 mpg in the Turtle, too. Turtle is a 14 year old stock, out of the box production car. But since I don't get to do that on a daily basis, those numbers wouldn't mean much to me, maybe just for bragging rights.

Evidently, it's not as easy as one would think.

Here's the spread sheet from the GGP.

http://diesel-bike.com/Centurion/GGP..._sort_edit.pdf

Note, there were only 4 cars over 100mpg with no Insights among them.



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