Vetter streamliner body kit

[Grant-53]

Craig, I agree. Safety first. When in doubt sit it out. A VW van was blown off the Sunshine Bridge in Tampa years ago. Aircraft are affected by cross winds and pilots use the rudders to compensate. The control surfaces of a land vehicle are the tire patches. The two designs I posted have rounded sides and profiles that I believe would work well as starting points for streamlining. The physics involved including lean angles and moments of inertia must be taken seriously for good results. Just the small difference in weight distribution between a scooter and a sport bike in streamlined body work is noticeable. The effects of the difference in curve radius from top to bottom in cross section and the height of the center of mass has not been studied widely enough. The principle is the same though, with the rounded edge leading and the fin edge down wind. We are on a learning curve bringing threads of development together to advance in a new direction. In my lifetime I have seen the aerodynamic development of open wheeled race cars go from simple cylinders on skinny tires to sophisticated ground effects tubs and inverted wings with wide sticky tires. It would be fascinating to think that a company such as Schweizer Aircraft could make motorcycle and trike bodies for high FE vehicles. I don't presume to have the cubic brains, money, or motorcycle expertise as some of you but I bring what I can to the discussions. For me success may be as simple as selling inexpensive plans for commuter bike fairings or building a human powered drag bike that tops 40 mph in the 1/8 mile.
Building a streamlined motorcycle or upright bicycle is a bit like toasting a marshmallow over a wood fire with your bare fingers. Anyone can do it if they have the patience and pay close attention. Most people will think you are crazy until you show them

[PeterS]

An interesting analogy !

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by cvetter

Airplanes "crab" into the wind. In other words, the airplane thinks it is always going straight into the wind. A flag on the nose would always point directly towards the tail.

Airplanes tend to crab into the wind because of the tail at the end.

But a flag on the nose would not always point directly aft ...
Gliders, TF9 Cougars, U2s, Tomcats all have or had yaw strings to see if they are heading straight into the wind or not.
On a Harrier, there's a vane on a small mast (couple of inches high) in front of the canopy.

Except rare times, like when landing and taking off, airplanes do not feel side winds.

Depends on what you mean by "do not feel".
Unless corrected, aircraft get pushed aside by many miles due to sidewinds.
But the pilots generally won't physically feel it.

[stiletto2]

Originally Posted by euromodder

Airplanes tend to crab into the wind because of the tail at the end.

But a flag on the nose would not always point directly aft ...
Gliders, TF9 Cougars, U2s, Tomcats all have or had yaw strings to see if they are heading straight into the wind or not.
On a Harrier, there's a vane on a small mast (couple of inches high) in front of the canopy.


Depends on what you mean by "do not feel".
Unless corrected, aircraft get pushed aside by many miles due to sidewinds.
But the pilots generally won't physically feel it.

Um, they point into the wind (weather vane effect) because of the tail at the end. The yaw string would only be off center if the aircraft was not allowed to be neutral and was purposely being held off by using control input or because of gusting wind or divergent flight. Crabbing is merely a reference to its "apparent " angle and movement over the ground. Loose all reference to the ground and one could not tell how the aircraft was moving in relation to the ground. (many fatal accidents in aviation happen because of that)

I used to fly an ultralight trike and one thing I liked to do when conditions were right was to fly up to about 1500 feet above the ground when the wind up there was going just over 30 KTS. (about 35 MPH) I would fly it directly into the wind right at about 32 MPH indicated which meant I was actually flying backwards around 3 MPH. If, at the time, I was flying over clouds, in the dark or through fog and couldn't see the ground or other reference points, it's likely that I would not even know I was actually going backwards.

"Crabbing" and "side winds" are terms used when one's flight path is other than directly into or directly away from the prevailing wind direction. Any vehicle in contact with the ground is going to feel wind effects more because of its resistance to move with the air. Once it is free from the ground it will move with the air. Occupants in hot air balloons feel very little wind once free from ground contact because the whole thing moves with the wind. There is little relative air movement in their immediate space because they are moving about the same speed as the wind.

Because of friction, contact with the ground resisting relative air movement and air drag, vehicles on the ground "feel" the wind more and its effects when it is not going the same way as their direction of travel. We try to do what we can to be slipperier and less affected by the air from any direction. (but stay firmly on the ground) What ever works best for you.

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by stiletto2

Because of friction, contact with the ground resisting relative air movement and air drag, vehicles on the ground "feel" the wind more and its effects when it is not going the same way as their direction of travel. We try to do what we can to be slipperier and less affected by the air from any direction. (but stay firmly on the ground)

One way to reduce weather vaning is to reduce the tail area ... which is of course contradictory to streamlining the ride.

But a slippery glider forward fuselage would have little (or rather , less) wind resistance from the sides than most other shapes.


BTW:
I've seen a Fieseler Storch do your trick years ago when flying was still allowed at airshows
And a Harrier, but that's not as impressive as they are cheating with thrust vectoring, it's just a lot noisier.

After Rammstein and more locally Ostend, the European airshow scene has become pretty lame.

[Grant-53]

Check craigvetter.com for the latest info on ordering the front end pieces. The shape is very refined and similar to the older sailplanes. The tail piece is up to us and there is some room for further development.

[cvetter]

The nose components for the Vetter Challenge Streamliner are available now for $1750 plus shipping. It looks like it costs $200-$300 to ship the nose via UPS. I will be towing a trailer from California to Vintage Days in Ohio next month and would be happy to deliver a set of streamliner parts to you - at no charge - or along the way if you can meet me.

These are parts out of the same mold as Terry Hershner's Record setting electric Zero.

I am now building the tooling for the tail bulkhead. Little by little, I will get this done.

Craig

[PeterS]

I've been looking at several photos of the electric Zero wearing Craig's bodywork and have been wondering what the effect of widening the lower rear section would be ? Increased drag no doubt to answer my own question but there appear to be some advantages for a touring bike .

It would be good for me to be able to have more storage , especially the heavier items down low. The bike I'm looking at has a raised exhaust which is not ideal but it would be good to have an opening exhaust below the muffler / silencer and a matching one on the other side, they could be very useful and frankly, the bigger the better.

There is a lot of storage above seat level but I would prefer to keep that area for light and bulky items.

[Frank Lee]

Pacific Coast

[sendler]

The tail as it is now is already huge inside but there is room to use the lower side areas if you added an inner wall. It may seem like stacking heavy items on the seat level is high but it is still below the cg of what would be a passenger. More important for handling is not to put the heavy things in the back.