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Old 02-23-2013, 12:59 PM   #21 (permalink)
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LiCo? LiMn? LiFe? There are many Lithium battery chemistries available now. It doesn't have to be dangerous technology any more.

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Old 02-23-2013, 01:30 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Interesting comments about no one taking the plunge to see if CF mass production is practical.

I am not for government throwing money down various green rat holes as they have been doing, but, in the case of CF it might almost make sense.

Sure would be a shame if this thing doesn't come stateside.

Would love to see that drivetrain in the VLC. I think they could top the VW numbers.
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Old 02-23-2013, 01:59 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Still trying to wrap my head around the possibilities of a 2-cylinder TDI...

The reverse trike world would be jumping for joy if it was somewhat easily attainable at a reasonable cost.
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Old 02-23-2013, 02:42 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000neon View Post
I love everything about this car. The only ? I have is how the narrowed rear track would do in snow/ slush conditions.
R&T spy shots of the production car during winter testing.

2014 Volkswagen XL1 Caught Testing - First VW XL1 Production Mule Photos - Road & Track
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Old 02-23-2013, 02:43 PM   #25 (permalink)
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From an MSN Autos article:

"A production version of the Volkswagen XL1 plug-in hybrid, which the German automaker says can get up to 270 mpg, will debut at the Geneva Motor Show in March. VW will put the high-mileage two-seater into production later this year but has not disclosed a price.

The production XL1 closely resembles the concept VW unveiled in early 2011. The aerodynamically shaped body, which includes fully covered rear wheels and rearview mirrors integrated into the door skin, cuts through the wind with a low 0.189 coefficient of drag.



VW says it will hand-build the XL1 at is plant in Osnabrück, Germany, which also builds the Porsche Boxster and VW Golf convertible. The XL1 will initially be produced in a run of just 50 cars. After that, Volkswagen says production will be altered to meet demand.

The XL1 makes extensive use of carbon-fiber-reinforced plastic for the body panels and aluminum for the frame structures. VW says the car has a curb weight of 1,753 pounds.

The plug-in hybrid powertrain combines an 800-cc two-cylinder diesel engine, rated at 47 hp, with an electric motor rated at 27 hp. Power flows through a seven-speed dual-clutch transmission. The XL1 carries a lithium-ion battery pack under the hood. The car can travel up to 31 miles on electric power.


VW says the XL1 needs just 8.3 hp to cruise steadily at 62 mph. The two-seater can accelerate from 0 to 62 mph in 12.7 seconds, and top speed is limited to 99 mph. A 2.6-gallon fuel tank gives the XL1 a theoretical range of 700 miles.

The XL1 measures 153 inches long, 65.6 inches wide and stands 45.4 inches tall. That makes the XL1 as long as a Toyota Yaris and 1 inch narrower, but the Yaris stands 14 inches taller than the Volkswagen."

8.3HP for steady 62MPH?! SLEEEEK
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Old 02-23-2013, 03:10 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyatt View Post
According to Car and Driver, it's a 5-kWh Lithium Ion battery pack. Lithium Ion batteries are the ones that caught fire in the Boeing 787 and has the fleet grounded.
Lithium Ion batteries are also in your cell phone and your lap top. Aren't you afraid your cell phone might catch fire?
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Old 02-23-2013, 05:50 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Lithium ion batteries are in almost every cell phone in existence, and most laptops, too. There are probably dozens if not hundreds of different types of lithium ion cells. Don't think that the difficulties of one type apply to all other types...

Thanks for the info on the pack capacity - I was vaguely remembering a 4kWh size a while back, so 5kWh is probably correct.

By the way, the Edison2 VLC requires a bit over 5HP to go 60MPH, if I'm remembering correctly.
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:25 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Osnabruck? Hey, that's the old Karmann works!

BTW, the battery fire in the 787 was evidently because of incorrect wiring. I've seen conventional lead-acid batteries cause fires from a misplaced wire, so...

-soD
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Old 02-24-2013, 05:03 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
Lithium ion batteries are in almost every cell phone in existence, and most laptops, too.
The Lithium compound used in cellphones and laptops is known commercially as "Lithium polymer". I don't remember what's its difference to the Lithium-ion compounds used in newer electric and hybrid car batteries, but the cellphone and laptop batteries were considered less safe for automobile usage, altough they have a higher energy density.
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Old 02-24-2013, 05:30 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
Lithium Ion batteries are also in your cell phone and your lap top. Aren't you afraid your cell phone might catch fire?
Your cell phone has a single battery cell. This means extremely low risk of fire.

Bigger things require several cells being wired together. If they are not very well balanced in terms of charge, they will tend to grow fibers between cells. The Li-Ion liquids used are highly flammable. When the fibers reach from one cell to another, they short the system generating large amounts of heat. The same fibers will grow if the wiring is done incorrectly. There are many variables and I won't claim to know them all. Many have used or planned to use Li-Ion and abandoned it due to the complexities.

As far as laptops are concerned, do a Google search for Laptop Battery Fires. There have been a few recalls for these batteries over the years. I remember at least a few people being very badly burned. Am I worried? No.

I am not saying that the XL1 is unsafe, but I am saying we have to understand that there may be a risk associated with that particular battery choice.

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