Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Fossil Fuel Free
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-26-2013, 09:54 AM   #11 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 21,659

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 53.78 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 61.98 mpg (US)

Fancy Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 58.72 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 66.29 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,405
Thanked 6,215 Times in 3,221 Posts
Heated/insulated battery boxes are pretty common in northern EV conversions.

Regular use will also keep the batteries warm, especially if you use a timer so the car is topping up just before you're ready to use it. Charging generates heat (as does discharging), and there's a lot of mass in your battery pack -- esp. floodies!

I rarely drove/drive the ForkenSwift in the winter, but the hair dryer pre-warm was my preferred method for cabin heat. I was never going very far, so it never cooled down enough to be an issue before the trip was done.

Mainly I avoided winter driving to prolong the cars life (salt/rust).

__________________
Latest mods: 3-cylinder Mitsubishi Mirage. EcoMods now in progress...
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 08-26-2013, 11:41 AM   #12 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,869

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,381
Thanked 2,875 Times in 1,809 Posts
Wearing a heated vest, used by motorcyclists, answers one heating issue. The defroster is a bit more complicated to solve, but we know how to do direct heating on the windshield, without the lines that are on the rear window.
__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 01:45 PM   #13 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Illinois
Posts: 452

Oh Deer - '03 Ford Ranger XL
90 day: 33.16 mpg (US)
Thanks: 54
Thanked 79 Times in 63 Posts
Thanks for the info. I guess I was wondering a little more along the lines of what do you all do with the batteries IF they aren't being used on a regular basis. I can see where if they are being used they would only have diminished capacity but if you weren't able to use them for an extended period of time how do you maintain them after they are fully charged?

I know the answer is probably a given for folks that have or have investigated EV's. Maybe someday I'll give it a try, but for now I need to try and finish my projects on the Ranger. So much to do and so little time.
__________________



  Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 01:47 PM   #14 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 21,659

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 53.78 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 61.98 mpg (US)

Fancy Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 58.72 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 66.29 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,405
Thanked 6,215 Times in 3,221 Posts
Just how extended a period are you talking about?

If you're talking weeks, then you'd want to do a top-up charge before using the vehicle anyway (to replace capacity lost to normal self-discharge). That would warm the batteries some.
__________________
Latest mods: 3-cylinder Mitsubishi Mirage. EcoMods now in progress...
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 03:31 PM   #15 (permalink)
EV convert
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 8,783

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 212
Thanked 2,897 Times in 2,261 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
Heated/insulated battery boxes are pretty common in northern EV conversions.

Regular use will also keep the batteries warm, especially if you use a timer so the car is topping up just before you're ready to use it. Charging generates heat (as does discharging), and there's a lot of mass in your battery pack -- esp. floodies!
That will work well for lead acid.
The LiFePO4 cells put off surprisingly little heat.
I had my LiFePO4 pack almost get drained from leaving my running lights on at work one day (LED running lights all around saved my LiFePO4 batt from a deep discharge). So I pulled the Anderson connectors and threw them on our "big 12v battery charger" and brought them from nearly drained to full charge with about a 4C charge rate.
There was very little detectable heat build up and I only know this because I was afraid of too much heat build up so I kept checking them every few minutes. Then after about 20 minutes they were fully charged and barely any warmer.

On a side note I read that any charging done when the lithium battery stack its self is below 20'F can cause you to permanently lose up to 20% of your capacity in one charging.
I don't know if this applies to LiFe or LiCo, the article I read just said "lithium".
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 09:32 PM   #16 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Ryland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Western Wisconsin
Posts: 3,904

honda cb125 - '74 Honda CB 125 S1
90 day: 79.71 mpg (US)

green wedge - '81 Commuter Vehicles Inc. Commuti-Car

Blue VX - '93 Honda Civic VX
Thanks: 867
Thanked 433 Times in 353 Posts
I put my 32 year old electric car in storage once there is snow on the ground, once every month or two I plug it in to top the batteries off, my batteries are about 5 years old and still in good shape.

On my lithium batteries on my motorcycle I have a thermosensor on each cell in the pack that is part of the battery management system, charging the cell (GBS brand, 100 amp hour cells) I do notice that they get warmer by a few degrees, so far that has just been to top them off, so I'm not sure how warm they would get from a full charge, I'll know in the next few weeks when I get the license plates in the mail.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 10:07 PM   #17 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 11,123

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 51.49 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
Mitsubishi
90 day: 56.69 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,438
Thanked 2,489 Times in 1,501 Posts
EVTV did a test on that. Most of the heat is generated in the last ~10% or so of the charge. Basically the constant voltage part of the charging, not the constant amperage. This is just one more reason to limit charging to less than 100%.
__________________
Current project: A better alternator delete
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Daox For This Useful Post:
Ryland (08-26-2013)
Old 08-27-2013, 02:04 AM   #18 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Saskatoon, canada
Posts: 1,455

ChargE (not yet running) - '92 Mazda MX6 LX
90 day: 33.89 mpg (US)

Ford Prefect - '18 Ford F150 XLT XTR
Thanks: 740
Thanked 534 Times in 429 Posts
Lowest temperature for charging LiFePO4

Does anyone know from experience what the low temperature on their BMS is programmed to? Where the BMS refuses to charge the batteries until they warm up.

I have read 0C (32F), -20C (-4F), but as seen on EVTV (that`s why I looked) the battery spec sheets don`t seem to match the advertising, or sometimes even other spec sheets for the same chemistry but a different amp-hour capacity.

I am going to have to heat my pack, and insulate it. Saskatoon, Canada gets down to -40C (-40F) a few days a year. That may cause me some issues in summer when I may need to cool the pack ... we also get a day or two that hits 35C (95F).
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 08:48 AM   #19 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 11,123

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 51.49 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
Mitsubishi
90 day: 56.69 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,438
Thanked 2,489 Times in 1,501 Posts
I haven't seen any testing on that, but I've heard 0C is the lower limit as well.
__________________
Current project: A better alternator delete
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 09:12 PM   #20 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
fidalgoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NW Montana
Posts: 89
Thanks: 6
Thanked 21 Times in 19 Posts
I also wondered about electric vehicles in extreme weather conditions be it 114 F in Phoenix or -25 F in the winter here in Montana.

Don't get me wrong I'm not dissn' electrics. I like the idea. It's just that when you have to run a heater in the winter or an air conditioner in the summer what does that do to your range?

If you take your car skiing and park it over night in minus ten or so and head back to the city an hour and a half away without being able to plug it in, is it practical or do you need another vehicle for when times aren't optimal.

I'm not talking about a couple of lead acid batteries and a golf cart motor but a sophisticated vehicle like the LEAF or Tesla?

Just curious how that works out.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com