What happens when 200 rocket scientists build a car...

[Xist]

I met a girl on-line that talked about being an engineer for Honeywell. She had an Associate's from a trade school.

[Fat Charlie]

Engineers design wonderful vehicles.

Auto executives demand vehicles that meet government requiremments for emissions, efficiency and crash safety while having enough cupholders and other doodads to satisfy Consumer Reports. These vehicles must have more power and cargo capacity than competing models while having arbitrarily assigned styling cues and must meet a particular price point while using many components common to other platforms in the manufacturer's lineup.

If engineers were ever allowed to, they would design wonderful vehicles. Until then, they're stuck designing exactly the cars that they are told to.

[P-hack]

I expect there were not 200 rocket scientists building this. More like 3 dudes and 197 supervisors.

[NachtRitter]

Originally Posted by mallrat

The engineers benefit because they like defecating on the service department. The customer pays because routine maintenance becomes more of a pain in the butt and takes longer.

Would definitely like to know which company (companies?) have engineers that believe they would benefit from defecating on the service dept. I know that's not true universally, as I've worked on some cars (and some appliances) where the serviceability is awesome, and some where it is horrible. Obviously I'd prefer to avoid products (which would need service) where the engineers feel they would benefit from defecating on the svc dept!

[wdb]

Originally Posted by Xist

I met a girl on-line that talked about being an engineer for Honeywell. She had an Associate's from a trade school.

I'm a senior engineer. I probably have a wee bit more accredited education than that girl, but no degree beyond what she has. What I do have is a *lot* of self-sought and self-taught knowledge. Applying that knowledge, and keeping my knowledge base fresh for my field, is how I earn the title and the salary that goes with it.

As you might imagine, I tend not to judge an engineer's value by their schooling.

[gone-ot]

The "Engineering" trade is sorta like the "Military" in this fashion:

OFFICERS = ENGINEERS.
Warrent Officers = self-made Engineers.
Enlisted = Technicians.

Over the years, I've worked in (and through) each catagory...from tech, to quasi-engineer (often called Associate Engineer) to degreed-engineer.

[H-Man]

I'm an engineering major. I think the least serviceable thing I have designed is my laptop turned server/firewall/'wall mount system thing'/space heater, it had the ribbon cable to the power button break off so I have to take the system off the wall to get to the backside to short out the traces for the power button in order to turn it on. I last saw the backside of the system in april, I haven't fixed it yet since I can't solder SMT stuff very well. In my defense, I haven't taken any actual engineering classes (mostly science, math, and English,) so my design approach amounts to stress testing the machine in excessively rough conditions (read: test the computer's cooling system by running a torture test on it for a week while the computer sits in a closed up car sitting in the sun in the middle of summer,) and making the design stronger if it looks weak.

[XYZ]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

The "Engineering" trade is sorta like the "Military" in this fashion:

OFFICERS = ENGINEERS.
Warrent Officers = self-made Engineers.
Enlisted = Technicians.

Over the years, I've worked in (and through) each catagory...from tech, to quasi-engineer (often called Associate Engineer) to degreed-engineer.

So after all your experiences, what do you call yourself today?

(No offense intended, just wondering...)

[Fat Charlie]

It's not so much that the engineers decide to dump on techs, or even that they don't care about serviceability. An engine is really easy to service when it's on a stand, but...

When another crew of engineers mounts it in a full size truck, some parts may be hard to get at.
When they slap it in the HD truck, you've just got to face that you're going to need a hoist to remove the oil pan.
When the sedan team mounts it in their car it's going to be tough to do anything.
The mid size engineers deserve an award for making it all under their hood at all.

Redesigning the engine for each platform (and not just using a different oil pan) would make for better serviceability, but it would cost a lot more.

Old Tele man- I'd compare officers more to the focus groups that make insane demands for the engineers to work on.

[mallrat]

Originally Posted by NachtRitter

Would definitely like to know which company (companies?) have engineers that believe they would benefit from defecating on the service dept. I know that's not true universally, as I've worked on some cars (and some appliances) where the serviceability is awesome, and some where it is horrible. Obviously I'd prefer to avoid products (which would need service) where the engineers feel they would benefit from defecating on the svc dept!

IMO, on class 8 trucks they've all gone that way over the last 5 or so years. Used to be just Volvo, Mercedes, and late model Cummins (ISX, ISM, and newer). Pita to change fuel and oil filters, and other routine maintenance. Cars are hit and miss, I always check the location on the oil filter when considering a purchase. For some reason GM seems to think that it's an integral part of the front suspension on many of its cars, making a giant mess every time you service it and darn difficult to get to if you don't have a frame hoist, IMO.