What is a hybrid?

[blueflame]

Most people feel they need to follow the status quo to fit and and be accepted.

Some, like many here, feel they need to give the finger when someone tells them what to do, or what to drive.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

For sure the mfgs willingly went along with the consumer's SUV/PU stupidity. Once the mfgs found they were on to something they promoted the helle out of it.

I think you've got the cause & effect backwards. There always were a certain number of SUVs & 4WD pickups built, but it wasn't until Congress gave the auto industry the truck loophole in CAFE &c standards that they started aiming them towards the general consumer market, and it took a heck of a lot of advertising & promotion to bring the market in line. Still takes a lot to keep it there: think about how much advertising content is aimed at selling the idea of SUVs & 4WDs, versus how much goes to selling "our SUV is better than the other guys'".

[Fab Man]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

OK, you asked for it: I grew up on a farm, and I think that if we'd had you around back then, we wouldn't have needed a manure spreader :-)

As for the nonsense about hybrids costing twice as much as an entry level car - well, so what? So does a BMW, Lexus, Porsche, or for that matter Hummer. Haven't noticed you objecting to any of those, have I?

WOW! calm that bucking horse down there farm boy...I was not attacking anyone on this forum as you had assumed I was...I was merely stating my opinion about the hybrid cars in general...so if you had your hat on a little looser you would have noticed that I did not mention the expensive luxury cars for a reason...they're not hybrids and this thread has nothing to do the the cars you had stated...if you would like my opinion on those as well, then all you had to do was ask...you didn't have to shove that manure BS in my face...the point is that you do know how to read what you want because you did agree on the cost of a hybrid, which you stated on opening line as being nonsense and then agreed...that is besides the fact that am entitled to my opinion and for you to start bashing members is just BS...my thread was started to merely have some fun and discuss the global issues at hand about hybrids...there are a lot of smart members here that would disagree with your statement because it was just down right stupid! and made no sense.

[Frank Lee]

I'm a farm boy too FWIW... he did put a smilie in there.

"I think you've got the cause & effect backwards."

Well is this a which came first: chicken or egg scenario? Both parties are complicit. I'm for sure not going to lay it all on the mfgs though.

[jamesqf]

Oh, come on. You come in here calling people morons, and spreading a load of BS - lies that have been shown to be lies over and over again - and you expect people not to call you on it? And not to see the very apt analogy to another kind of BS spreader?

As for your supposed point about expensive luxury cars, ANY new technology is a luxury when it first comes out. Right now, all hybrids are luxury items. (And of course from my POV any new car is a luxury item.) People pay more for them than for the cheapest econobox they can find for the same kinds of reasons that they pay more for BMWs & Porsches, or order their SUV with that optional big V8 or GPS system. You tried to make a point about freedoms, so why are you denying people freedom to spend their money on the luxury of using less gas?

[whitewiz]

I agree because:
Current gasoline/electric Hybrid technology is using a lot of expensive and heavy components to create an Energy Return System. The only advantage this system has it that it collects SOME of the braking energy and uses it to accelerate the car.

I disagree because:
-Plug-in hybrids are coming
-amorphous solar films could turn the body of the car into a big solar panel
-economies of scale; the more hybrids Toyota makes the cheaper they will be
-Hybrids don't have to be gasoline/electric. Korea is making a pneumatic/electric
-If you just want a cheap/light ERS, add a big clock spring to your transmission.

sure the current gen of hybrids are trendy propaganda but it's a necessary stage to advance technologies (battery) and find synergistic technologies.

[Fab Man]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Oh, come on. You come in here calling people morons, and spreading a load of BS - lies that have been shown to be lies over and over again - and you expect people not to call you on it? And not to see the very apt analogy to another kind of BS spreader?

As for your supposed point about expensive luxury cars, ANY new technology is a luxury when it first comes out. Right now, all hybrids are luxury items. (And of course from my POV any new car is a luxury item.) People pay more for them than for the cheapest econobox they can find for the same kinds of reasons that they pay more for BMWs & Porsches, or order their SUV with that optional big V8 or GPS system. You tried to make a point about freedoms, so why are you denying people freedom to spend their money on the luxury of using less gas?

So what kind of person do you call yourself?...first of all I haven't lied about anything...again you are assuming...and you know what they say about those kinds of people...your just pissed because you don't like my opinion...and yes you are entitled to have yours...the only difference between you and I is that I know how to not let it get under my skin like you do when a person want to voice their opinion...you seem to have this tunnel vision about ones opinion and just want to bash people down because you enjoy it sooo much!...again, it's just another mans opinion and you seem to have selective reading syndrome...go back and quote where it is that I lied...I will honestly say I was just predicting the future about the battery warranty comment...other then that comment I made, I have done no such lying that you accuse me of...so get off your high horse and show me proof...that is if you can without twisting my own words.

THIS WAS MY 2nd POST
"Frank Lee, I would like to make a correctional statement...when I used the word "moron", I was speaking about those who purchased a hybrid without doing their homework"...my words!, can you read this now!..DO YOU COMPREHEND WHAT I MEANT, OR DO I HAVE TO SPELL IT OUT FOR YOU!!

"I wanted to express some of my opinions about these money sucking cars they call "Hybrids""...again, my opening statement! it clearly states "opinion"

"Are freedoms are being robed every day and every year, a little here and a little there"...this paragraph was about our government agencies...I never tried to prove anything...I merely stated "MY" opinion about how our freedoms are being taken away...so show me where I stated, like you accused me of telling people can't buy a luxury car or SUV!!

So jamesqf would you like to twist more of my words...or are you ready to face the truth of your accusations...from what I can see, your a bully and a lair and can't handle a civil conversation without blowing your top just because you don't like my opinion.

As far as the luxury car statement, I never made any assumption about these cars in my opening thread...go back and re read it...you are the one who brought that one up...and my freedom statement was pointed towards the government and states not the people...so again you have twisted my words to suit your aggression...I feel that you need a lesson in reading comprehension and stop twisting my words!!

This is right out of the Encyclopedia just for you jamesqf;

An opinion is a person's ideas and thoughts towards something which it is either impossible to verify the truth of, or the truth of which is thought unimportant to the person. It is an assertion about something especially if that something lies in the future and its truth or falsity cannot be directly established e.g. induction. An opinion is not a fact, because opinions are either not falsifiable, or the opinion has not been proven or verified. If it later becomes proven or verified, it is no longer an opinion, but a fact.

IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU!!..OR ARE YOU NOT MAN ENOUGH TO FESS UP THAT YOU ARE CLEARLY WRONG!...so stuff that in your pipe and smoke it!

My guess is that you will come back with another stupid accusation and just twist more of my words cuz you will never admit to being wrong!

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by whitewiz

I agree because:
Current gasoline/electric Hybrid technology is using a lot of expensive and heavy components to create an Energy Return System. The only advantage this system has it that it collects SOME of the braking energy and uses it to accelerate the car.

The energy return from regenerative braking is quite small. Something like ~10% or less IIRC. The most advantageous part of the system is less brake wear, which translates into fewer brake jobs and all that.

[Frank Lee]

Cool!

But my '94 F150 w/109,000m is still proudly wearing the factory pads!

Yeah I'm easy on 'em. But they have had to deal with some very heavy loads too.

P.S. Hey Metro, didja see this?
http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-te...tml#post423626

the HSD Prius rotors are extremely prone to rusting up and apparently a number of people have had to have otherwise perfectly good rotors replaced because of rust, but I also have a solution for that: on my Classic, but also on every other car I've owned, I've purchased a can of cold-galvanizing spray (basically 95+% zinc powder with an epoxy binder) and wire-brushed the brake components and then sprayed them with a liberal coating of the cold galvanize..

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Fab Man

...first of all I haven't lied about anything...

Yes, you did lie, for example saying that large numbers of hybrid batteries are going to fail, that Toyota won't honor their warranties and people are going to have to take out large loans for replacements. The Prius & Honda Insight have been around for nine years now (average car lifespan is about 10 years, IIRC), lots of them on the road, very few battery problems, most of those covered by warranties which have been honored and even extended beyond the original date. For the few who aren't covered by warranty (salvage titles and such), replacement batteries are available from salvage yards for a few hundred dollars. These are matters of checkable facts, not opinion.

You lied again, in stating that "...facts are facts and we all know the big oil run our world...". Sorry, but I don't know any such thing. You may believe it - that's your right - but claiming that I share that opinion is just a lie.

...your just pissed because you don't like my opinion...

Nope. I'm pissed because you called me a moron. I shelled out some of my money (I'll not claim that it was "hard-earned", though) for a hybrid. Had it for going on six years now, about 85K miles of hard driving, mostly in mountains & desert. I've averaged over 70 mpg, can go 700 miles or so between fillups which never cost over $40 even when gas was at its highest, spend less on insurance & registration than with my previous car (which was pretty cheap), haven't spent more than a few hundred on maintenace & repairs, and it's fun to drive. This makes me a moron?