What is a hybrid?

[Fab Man]

I wanted to express some of my opinions about these money sucking cars they call "Hybrids"...first of all, I still find it very amazing after all the blown hype about these cars that any moron would still be willing to shell out their hard earned money for one...they cost about twice as much money as a entry level car in the same group...and then when you think your almost done with ownership, boom!...honey we need to get a loan to buy some new batteries...the very day you sign that contract, that car own you!...do you think Toyota will actually honor their battery warranty? LOL....what do you think will happen when 60,000 owners all line up for their so called replacements...there may be a looong waiting list, it may be a couple of years before they deliver, or wait, if you missed any high dollar service checks, they could cough out and say you didn't follow warranty guide lines.

The motor companies never wanted to eliminate the engine, they just wanted to add more weight which sucks more fuel!...why do you think the EV that GM built was destroyed, because there was too much pressure from the oil companies to not build a full on EV!...it wasn't soon after all the so called tested and leased EV were destroyed that the big 3 started the big SUV trend...they had to make up to the oil companies for cutting their profits...I really don't care how you look at the whole picture here, but facts are facts and we all know the big oil run our world...and the reason why California is putting the pressure on CARB is because the state is loosing tax revenue from lost fuel sales, WAAH!!

Are freedoms are being robed every day and every year, a little here and a little there...maybe we wont notice?...our governed state and government does not want to be green, because that means they loose big time...so the only way they can recoup lost revenue is the raise taxes and charge higher fees for those who want to be green...so we are well awarded for wanting to have a better world...don't you just love America...the land of the FREE!

Note: Why is it that when I see these hybrids on the freeway, they blow by me doing 75-80 mph!...isn't that sacrilegious?...that's like being on a junk food diet..LOL!

Just thought of this one
H=Hows
Y=Your
B=Battery
R=Replacement
I=Included
D=Doing?

Lets hear what ye has to say about this!

[Frank Lee]

I think hybrids do have their place, in certain operating environments, and so not all hybrid owners are "morons". That said, I think a lot of people jumped on the hybrid bandwagon without really thinking about it (as people generally do) and they would have been better off with an economical non-hybrid.

I can think of one instance in particular where a person I knew was greatly alarmed by rising gas prices and wanted to get a hybrid in the worst way (practically frantic!)
actually getting very upset that the dealer sold "his" hybrid to someone else (that was when the waiting lists were very long and the hype machine was running full bore). I sat down with him and went over the numbers and truly he had practically the optimal solution for his needs already in the garage: a Metro. A hybrid in his situation would have been a colossal waste of money.

I'm not ready to give too much credence to any conspiracy theories about EVs, SUVs, oil companies, and such. Yes the auto mfgs are party to some really stupid stuff but in spite of that, my tendency is to lay the blame on the consumer. You see, nobody holds a gun to a car buyer's head and makes them buy what they don't want. Conversly, if EVs were REALLY what the consumer wanted, they'd have them already. I think the SUV/pickup sales explosion was the stupid*** consumers doing, and the mfgs simply went along for the ride. BTW, I am SO FREEKING GLAD I'm not subjected to pickup truck TV ads 24/7 anymore!!! Well, not that I watched that much TV, but whenever it was on, it seemed the truck ads took up at least 40% of the viewing time. I mean, do people really have that much **** to haul around???

I totally agree re: hybrids blowing your doors off being sacrilege. They don't just cruise fast; they practically burn rubber when taking off from stops. It's like, look at me, I'm green, I've done my part, I'm tearing around like a mindless idiot in a HYBRID!!! Way to lay responsibility for being "green" all on the car, and none of it on yourself.

America is NOT the Land Of The Free. But I think the sheeple like it that way. Read some political issue forums and blogs- how people think scares the living **** outta me. I guess we get the gummint we deserve.

[blueflame]

Original battery packs are doing like 500,000? miles or so in that New York cab?.

We have a cab company in Auckland that only uses Prius now. Even 1st gen Prius are on original batteries?

A guy down the road calls his Prius a 'Pious'. His tyre pressures are never checked and 1 tyre is usually near flat....

If they made a lightweight version of a hybrid I'd be keen. Dont want to go from my 640kg car to a 1400kg car, just to haul my miserable ass about town and about.

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

You see, nobody holds a gun to a car buyer's head and makes them buy what they don't want. Conversly, if EVs were REALLY what the consumer wanted, they'd have them already. I think the SUV/pickup sales explosion was the stupid*** consumers doing, and the mfgs simply went along for the ride.

Both parties are to blame, and I'd put my money on the manufacturers as well as the consumers. People can only buy what car companies build. If they don't build any SUVs, people can't buy SUVs. Arguably we could say that the companies who weren't building SUVs like the big 3 could've been pushed out of business, but companies such as Toyota and Honda have effectively put that notion to bed. They can build a few SUVs, but in general have a relatively efficient production fleet. That said, ultimately it's a policy failure, as we can see from the approach of countries like France and the U.K.

[cfg83]

Hello -

I have no problems with hybrids as a transition technology. As others have posted, the batteries have held up well and are therefore proving themselves in real world circumstances. Also, the *replacement* generation of batteries are going DOWN in price, not up :

Some Hard Figures on Hybrid Battery Replacement ~ Hybrid Car Review

Failure Rate of Hybrid Battery Packs
Honda says fewer than 200 of their 100,000 hybrids (0.2%) have had their battery fail after the warranty expired. Toyota says their battery failure rate (after warranty) for their second generation Prius (2004 model year and up) is 0.003 percent which equates to 1 every 40,000. The first generation Prius had a failure rate of 1 percent post warranty.
...
Hybrid Battery Replacement Cost
On June 1, Honda is cutting it's replacement costs from $3,400 to $1,968 (excluding installation costs) for a Insight up to $2,440 on an Accord Hybrid. Toyota is also looking to cut it's $3,000 replacement costs (excluding installation cost). Originally, replacement costs were around $5,500.

From my POV, this a fringe benefit of the link between batteries and the Moore's Law speed of advancement of PC tech.

If I were in the new car market, the *only* thing that would keep a hybrid out of my top-5 list is my bias towards manual-transmissions.

No manual, no $ from me.

CarloSW2

[Daox]

Yeah, the battery packs in the Hybrids really do last forever, and manufacturers have been VERY compliant with replacing (and recycling) them. I can understand people being uneasy about hybrids years ago, but the Prius has been around for 11 years now! These things are not new and have shown themselves a worthy technology. Honda with the Insight II is showing us it can be an affordable option too. The main problem IMO is that the manufacturers are loading on every possible option and offering that as a base model! I don't need the million little gadgety features the Prius base model comes with, but I don't have a choice because its a standard feature.

[trikkonceptz]

I personally hate the Green today gone tomorrow attitudes of the consumers that are buying Hybrids. In a perfect world, those that bought these vehicles wanted to do so to make a positive change in their lives and the enviroment. So why sell the car after 2 years? If those owners really cared about making a change, then hold on to your Hybrid, don't trade it in or sell it because you want the next latest or greatest thing.

And as far as driving habits, you guys are right, I hit 100 miles of highway everyday and watch countless Prius blow my doors off at speed higher than 70mph. Then again, I shake my head knowing I am getting better gas mileage out of a 4 year old non hybrid sub compact.

Education on so many levels seems to be the answer ..

[Fab Man]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

I think hybrids do have their place, in certain operating environments, and so not all hybrid owners are "morons". That said, I think a lot of people jumped on the hybrid bandwagon without really thinking about it (as people generally do) and they would have been better off with an economical non-hybrid.

Frank Lee, I would like to make a correctional statement...when I used the word "moron", I was speaking about those who purchased a hybrid without doing their homework...I was not pointing the finger at every single hybrid owner who owns one...but at the same time if a manufacture built a car and no one bought that model, it would not be sold the following year...I believe that repeated advertising is part of the problem that attracted so many hybrid buyers to purchase without all the facts...when a hybrid is advertised, they talk about the good of the car and that's it, they talk about all those fancy gizmoes that you really don't need that just add more weight to the car...I am also sure that they could build a much lighter version if they wanted too...since the gas prices started to hit $5 bucks a gallon, almost every car maker jumped on the hybrid band wagon...and yet, just to enter the hybrid market you will need $25k+...I could buy a fully loaded Passat with a TDI that will get better mileage then the hybrid car and it doesn't have batteries.

I will also point out that GM will never reintroduce the EV1 for the sake of embarrassing shame...that was a really good advanced car for its time...I think they should build another EV cuz they did it once, they could do it again.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Fab Man

Lets hear what ye has to say about this!

OK, you asked for it: I grew up on a farm, and I think that if we'd had you around back then, we wouldn't have needed a manure spreader :-)

As for the nonsense about hybrids costing twice as much as an entry level car - well, so what? So does a BMW, Lexus, Porsche, or for that matter Hummer. Haven't noticed you objecting to any of those, have I?

[Frank Lee]

Originally Posted by roflwaffle

Both parties are to blame, and I'd put my money on the manufacturers as well as the consumers. People can only buy what car companies build. If they don't build any SUVs, people can't buy SUVs. Arguably we could say that the companies who weren't building SUVs like the big 3 could've been pushed out of business, but companies such as Toyota and Honda have effectively put that notion to bed. They can build a few SUVs, but in general have a relatively efficient production fleet. That said, ultimately it's a policy failure, as we can see from the approach of countries like France and the U.K.

For sure the mfgs willingly went along with the consumer's SUV/PU stupidity. Once the mfgs found they were on to something they promoted the helle out of it. Buut:

The car companies DID and always have offered economical choices. If the consumer preferred, say, the Metro and made it America's top seller for 37 years instead of the F150, our national fleet would look quite a bit different.

The car companies SHOULD offer SUVs. There is some percentage of motorists for which an SUV is actually the most appropriate, most economical choice. But bear with me as I grab numbers out of thin air here- that might be 2% of motorists vs the 48% of motorists that jumped on the SUV bandwagon for whatever stupid purposes they had in mind.

Is it a policy failure or a failure of the consumer in general to be a consciencious steward? I think it's both... but mostly a consumer fault.