What's the best RV/motorhome aerodynamically?

[Frank Lee]

Originally Posted by Sven7

Just wanted to pop in and say Sprinters are a no-no because they have terrible build quality. A friend of mine worked in a body shop a couple years ago when they got a sprinter in. It had rust holes around the windshield frame, on a less than ten year old van!

I have the same impression of the VW Eurovan; saw one in Minneapolis that was fairly new yet completely rotted out in the weirdest of places. Poor materials, poor/no rust protection, poor paint. What a P.O.S.

[shovel]

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by ron

nice post. my wife and I are on the lookout for a used trailer 24ish feet, I want good aero she wants the ritz. Viewfinder v nose looks very good. what do you all think.

AIRSTREAM and it's upmarket cousins. Hits all the marks (and then some). Been in production since just after WWII. Thousands out there in all conditions. See Airstream Trailer & Motorhome Owners Community

Otherwise, for quality in recent trailers of the square white box variety:

Arctic Fox

Nash

Jayco

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[Sven7]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

I have the same impression of the VW Eurovan; saw one in Minneapolis that was fairly new yet completely rotted out in the weirdest of places. Poor materials, poor/no rust protection, poor paint. What a P.O.S.

The VR6 models are apparently a pain to work on, too.

[wrw166]

i resisted towing a vehicle for years. i relented and now confirm what other class A owners had advised: don't worry about it. you get used to the larger inertia. And biggest surprise--no fuel mileage penalty.

My 32' diesel pusher (18000 lbs) with 5.9L Cummins (12valve) could always be counted on for 10mpg. Now towing a Honda fit (2200 lbs) the mileage varies between 9 and 13. The variation seems to be wind conditions more than elevation changes. A simple bump-up of the fuel plate was also made which increased the top rpm from 2400 rpm to 2500 and seems to have increased the torque on hills. I am surrounded
by mountains here in Las Vegas.

Overall economy has increased. My mechanic believes that towing a vehicle behind a box reduces the drag. So the idea of towing an aero trailer is probably is the best way
to improve economy.

The Allison 545 has a very sloppy torque converter. I would like to add a lockup but don't know how. wrw

[freebeard]

Am I late to the thread, or just getting back to it? I saw a Vixen once, in the parking lot at the Oregon Country Faire.

There have been some interesting comments, especially slowmover's posts

I offer this not because it gets good mileage or isn't a rust bucket, but because it is an ideal size for 2-4 people. It's 18 1/2 feet long and less than 10 feet high so it will fit in a coin-op car wash. With a separate bath, closet, 6' galley; it sleeps 4 plus.

Those tires are probably OEM from 1964. They hold 50 psi for years, but I'm skeered to drive on them. Apparently Hummer rims and tires bolt on. 9000lb/225 cubic inches/10 mpg/55mph on a good day. Later models came with the 450ci Olds Toronado—same as the GMC. But what might it do with a Toureg V10? Or a Clark electric forklift motor?

But it's a rust bucket and RV appliances may suck but I'm more concerned about the wiring. I owe the forum a post on aero-modding it but I'm held up because I can't find a X-ray view or a nice chassis shot like that light blue GMC. I was going to do more with lighting and rendering (and lens flares) but here's a preview of the rebody, a wooden geodesic dome:

*This* would be the world's most aerodynamic RV.

[slowmover]

No question that a Cortez is pretty cool. I would be as concerned about rust as about wiring in a half-century old vehicle.

As the door is in the rear (and the body is very well made in the first pace), I'd be thinking more along the lines of a fold-away tail as used on 18-wheeler box vans. Help in keeping the vehicle upright and lane-centered (with reduced driver inputs) is the real game.

But, utility while parked trumps FE. There is no way around this, in a general sense. RV mpg will be about careful trip planning more than any change contemplated once one "sees" that a moving house -- a few weeks here, then down the road 300-miles -- has high energy input costs per square foot all around, not just engine fuel (as one also counts operator-fuel as part of the equation; what is necessary to keep the folks alive and well must also be purchased, stored and carried . . and has limitations).

A motorhome pulling either a car or trailer with local transportation vehicles is okay for a group. Still won't match a car/trailer combo for overall lowest initial costs or operational costs.

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[freebeard]

No question that a Cortez is pretty cool. I would be as concerned about rust as about wiring in a half-century old vehicle..(and the body is very well made in the first pace),

I'm used to German steel. It's not German steel. An oaken geodesic dome would bounce like a basketball.

...a fold-away tail...

Do you mean like this:

A motorhome pulling either a car or trailer with local transportation vehicles is okay for a group. Still won't match a car/trailer combo for overall lowest initial costs or operational costs.

I see the design proposal addressing the inanity of a vehicle pulling a trailer with another (water) vehicle on it.

My weekly driver is a VW Beetle with McPherson struts in the front. There is room to sit in the trunk with the hood up (I'm not small). The shotgun & rear seats are in storage and there is an L-shaped bench 6' long instead. The left rear seat belt, an aluminum pack frame and a folded tarp make up the +1 seat. I'm adding a 200w amp w/ speakers and a Koolatron fridge this week, and I'm adding 110v AC as soon as I source a deep-cycle battery and latching relay.

The mileage isn't that great. It's sort of a bug-out vehicle that won't clear some speed bumps.

[shovel]

Originally Posted by freebeard

I see the design proposal addressing the inanity of a vehicle pulling a trailer with another (water) vehicle on it.

SEALANDER.de | Der Schwimmcaravan - The Swimming caravan | SEALANDER | Der Schwimmcaravan - The Swimming caravan

[slowmover]

The idea of wanting better FE for a given camper seems good, but what is the purpose for which the camper is used? If one understands that this is ones house, then the place of motor fuel takes its place pretty well among other energy inputs. One is moving, gypsy-like, to follow economic opportunity. Moves might be from contract-to-contract, or, where I am at present, following a physical resource extraction bonanza. Other examples would be skilled labor at capital construction projects, and along this line.

Otherwise one is spinning wheels over a cheaper vacation. Won't work, not if major changes are planned to a vehicle. Planning the moves in detail is where the savings occur to that end.

An aero motorhome, to get back to the OP, means chosing the one that can best benefit. The one that can best benefit is really the one that works best in all other ways for the owner/operator (I would be more concerned with fresh water capacity, solar panel / battery bank, and type/brand of electrical generator over specfic FE on the drivetrain).

freebeard knows this, but if not obvious to others, one must be able to use the rear door on a Cortez. For those few hours of driving versus living, then something like a "trailer tail" ought to be fabbed up (shown here on a MESILLA VALLEY trailer).

Might be that the panels could be hooked to the sides of the moho at rest and provide awning support. Or as skirting support to reduce undercarriage heat exchange; as livestock corral, you-name-it. The need for outdoor rooms -screened -- is almost not optional when one considers RV wear & tear. If one could move some things outside (food prep, some cooking, etc), then all is better; not just as lounging/sleeping area.



And lets not knock a trailer behind a moho depending on the size of the group and its' composition (age, infirmities, local terrain & climate challenges) and the mix of alternative transport carried (motorcycles, golf cart, ATV, bicycles, etc). As well as goods to sell or barter not to mention a small craft shop where any or all of these can underwrite expenses. The moho is then better seen as the prime mover where every HP is at work. That would be best spec & use where the moho main fuel tank can re-fuel other vehicles when suitably/safely equipped to do so (or solar electrical). Mothership in a meaningful sense.

If I haven't brought it up earlier in this thread (forgive me if I have) I see the main functions (and system prorities) as:

I] Weathertight, easily-warmed or cooled shelter (inside a range of moderate temperatures; given consruction and RV or marine appliances).

II] System importance

A] Water
- fresh capacity and waste handling. This -- more than any other --determines independence from outside inputs.

B] Propane
- a very close second as without this bottled stay-fresh-forever fuel, campers wouldn't exist. Fresh food storage, cooking, water heating, interior air temp heating.

C] Electrical
- practically optional, but we take electricity for granted. With an onboard generator and solar system one can pretty well "participate" online in nearly all areas of the country. Convenience other than where cooling demands are high (running roof A/C). One must examine ones relation to society as electricity is, in a practical sense, optional. The moho is also where one mounts antennas and transceivers (and related) to serve a group.

"Onboard" for the generator means permanent mount in a dedicated space with permanent fuel lines and exhaust as portable generators are not up to the task of long-term work (see ONAN commerical -- not RV -- generators). This can also run compressors for tools. Portables are not as robust, loud, and tend to grow legs.

Proper understanding of these limitations means that one can use less fuel with the prime mover that averages 6-mpg than with the one that gets 12-mpg on a very bad day.

The economy of a moho plummets with other than a group to service & support, IMO. Specific FE is not important where all else is correctly done for a given or related purposes. If it is, the other expenses of travel or remote living are themselves reduced. This is where lies "economy" when one wants civilized amenities available.

A Cortez would be outmatched by this. But a 1980's BLUEBIRD Wanderlodge FC would not.

After all, a mix of other RV's -- kept lighter and more aero -- can be serviced thusly. One might have a TT [travel trailer] that is almost exclusively a bunkhouse. If mounted on a big gooseneck trailer (as examples shown on www.pirate4x4.com) then but two prime movers can be made to carry a towns worth of supply/tools/equipment. Think of a clan or family corporation trying to make advantage of a continent-sized country.

Whether one is inspired by the cowboy chuckwagon (see "6666 Ranch") or railroad or construction crews throughout the 20th century one can find examples where re-inventing the wheel isn't needed in how to "see" the economy of a motorhome.

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