Why do you drive an automatic (unless you don't)?

[TheMarkofPolo]

I'd like to get a hybrid manual Subaru after we get married. Now, if I could just get the fiance to learn standard...(She once knew how, but the Saab she learned manual with had massive transmission problems that ended in several backwards, downhill, traffic-dodging experiences. I bid myself good luck with the Subie endeavor...)

[Thymeclock]

Originally Posted by dcb

city is where a manual really shines in the mpg department, it's no serious effort, just part of driving.

What city do you live in? Try daily driving in a really densely populated area such as N.Y. City. Constant shifting is unavoidable and soon takes its toll on a clutch.

What does it cost to replace a clutch nowadays? It may be sweet if you own a vehicle repair facility. Its not so sweet having to pay for clutch replacement every 30K or so.

[Thymeclock]

Originally Posted by darcane

I let it slide the first go around, but not twice...

I don't understand. What does that mean?

I think I drive in the city often enough to be considered a city dweller. And the city I drive in is one of the worst when it comes to hills (Seattle). I'd still much rather have a manual than an auto. You have little more to do, but you are far more in control of what your car does with a manual. You can get better performance (whether that performance is spirited driving or driving for efficiency) with a manual. Manuals aren't just for braindead freeway cruising. In fact, part of why I like manuals is that it keeps me actively thinking about what I an doing.

I don't think you understand what driving is like with a stop sign on every corner and traffic lights and traffic virtually everywhere you drive. It requires constant braking and shifting.

I like driving a manual. I don't particularly like automatics, they are just more practical and economical in terms of less maintenance for my environs. Hills have little or nothing to do with it. But needing to shift constantly wears out a clutch, due to unavoidable and relentless use.

[SentraSE-R]

Darcane drives Seattle hills, and I drive San Francisco hills in manual transmission cars. We understand fully what it's like driving in metropolitan conditions, and still prefer manuals. Automatics never approach the fuel efficiency of manuals in the hands of a hypermiler.

As for clutch replacements, I save enough annually in fuel costs to pay for a clutch every year. When I gave my eight year old SE-R to my daughter last month, its original clutch was still (and is still) working fine.

[dcb]

Originally Posted by Thymeclock

...
What does it cost to replace a clutch nowadays?...

about $80 and a weekend, in chicago area. Lasts about 130k. Nothing to fret over. Worth the efficiency gains, easier than walking. You don't have to slip the clutch any more than necessary to get the car rolling, I don't slip it at all between gears. So many countries are predominantly stick, and some are quite hilly, plenty of precedent for not having a lazy and sloppy automatic in the city.

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by Thymeclock

Try daily driving in a really densely populated area such as N.Y. City. Constant shifting is unavoidable and soon takes its toll on a clutch.

Its not so sweet having to pay for clutch replacement every 30K or so.

The constant shifting in city traffic, when done properly, actually isn't too bad.
In city traffic, one's usuallynot gunning it, so the wear is within limits.

If you need a clutch replacement after 30K miles, get an automatic or learn to use the clutch properly.

[dcb]

the other efficiency technique is simply to time the stoplights/obstructions so you don't have to get the car moving from a dead stop, which is where most all the clutch wear happens.

I was paying more attention to my clutch technique, and it seems that I basically give the throttle a slight (educated) blip, and as I quickly engage the clutch I'm quickly lifting off the gas, so I wind up at about 5mph with the clutch fully engaged and the throttle near the idle throttle position in short order, at which point I get on the gas.

Imagine how long your brakes would last if you only had to bring the car to a complete stop from 5mph? Same deal in reverse here for the clutch. Take "don't ride the clutch" seriously.

[Thymeclock]

Originally Posted by euromodder

The constant shifting in city traffic, when done properly, actually isn't too bad.
In city traffic, one's usuallynot gunning it, so the wear is within limits.

If you need a clutch replacement after 30K miles, get an automatic or learn to use the clutch properly.

I refer you back to my first post (#11) in this thread:

This is contingent on the type of driving you do. We live in citified environs (suburbia). I once owned a car that I bought new that was a manual and I enjoyed it, but the clutch was shot by 40K miles. Not that I don't know how to clutch, (believe me, I DO). But realize that when you drive almost exclusively in city traffic you cannot avoid needing to clutch and shift a lot, a great deal more than if you are in a rural environment doing mostly highway driving.

So for us having automatic transmissions is a 'must'. And changing the automatic tranny fluid helps too. So far none of my vehicles have needed transmission repair with over 100K miles on each, whereas one with a manual clutch would have worn out and needed replacement several times by now.

[dcb]

the point is, as I describe in post 67, there is a way to minimize clutch wear. If you broke it in 40k, you were having too much "fun". You could wear out a set of brake pads in 10k miles if you tried also, it isn't the cars fault.

Automatics are not a "must", except for certain handicaps. And making excuses that you "must" have one is not eco.

[cfg83]

dcb -

Originally Posted by dcb

the point is, as I describe in post 67, there is a way to minimize clutch wear. If you broke it in 40k, you were having too much "fun". You could wear out a set of brake pads in 10k miles if you tried also, it isn't the cars fault.

...

When I drove my Dad's 1971 Karmann Ghia I was a clutch rider. I went through two clutches in maybe 40K miles. One was so worn down that the tops of the mounting screws were almost completely worn off.

On my current 1999 SW2 I got a new clutch at 115K miles, but that was done as part of a quill (throwout?) bearing repair. I have put 90K miles on my current clutch.

I think of clutch plates, brake pads, and rotors as a part of a car that is *supposed* to wear out. I will take care of them as best I can, but I have no problem with replacing them if they have given me decent service :

HowStuffWorks "Common Problems and Other Types of Clutches"

CarloSW2