Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-18-2011, 01:32 PM   #211 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Silly-Con Valley
Posts: 1,417
Thanks: 173
Thanked 226 Times in 174 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
There is no contest - renewables are the only ones that last as long as the Earth does, and that do not mess up the environment we depend on to live.
Is ethanol a renewable resource, then? If so, why don't we plow under all of the Brazilian rain forest and plant corn? Archer-Daniels-Midland would be pleased as punch about that, and according to you there is no pollution nor any environmental impact.

I'm not advocating for any particular power source, but I am saying that blanket statements like "no pollution" and "do not mess up the environment" are absurd. I have cited several examples already, which you seem to be ignoring.

I'm also saying that any solution we come up with will likely have to use more than just "the big fusion reactor in the sky".

-soD

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 07-18-2011, 03:57 PM   #212 (permalink)
(:
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 12,708

Blue - '93 Ford Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 Ford F150 XLT 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Ford Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 honda gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Mercury Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,568
Thanked 3,482 Times in 2,181 Posts
Quote:
If so, why don't we plow under all of the Brazilian rain forest and plant corn? Archer-Daniels-Midland would be pleased as punch about that, and according to you there is no pollution nor any environmental impact.
__________________


  Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2011, 08:54 PM   #213 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,848

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,325
Thanked 2,858 Times in 1,796 Posts
Chemical fertilizers (made from natural gas) and chemical pesticides are not sustainable, and corn is one of the least efficient crops in terms of energy input; so corn ethanol is not a viable biofuel. Obviously, tearing down rainforest is a stupid thing to do, for any purpose.

A crop like jatropha makes a lot more sense, and might be sustainable. It is a perennial, grows in drought conditions on marginal land, as I understand it. It has a lot of oil in it's seeds/fruit and it makes very good biodiesel.

Jatropha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All energy on Earth came originally from the sun or from the gravity generated by the Earth and/or the moon. Why wouldn't it be these be the best sources for energy?

Solar heat and solar PV, wind power, wave power, tidal power, geothermal power, small scale hydro -- none of these burn any fuel or consume anything to produce power. There is no waste produced when they are generating electricity. Their power source will keep going and going and going...

What's not to like?
__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 04:13 AM   #214 (permalink)
The PRC.
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Elsewhere.
Posts: 5,304
Thanks: 285
Thanked 535 Times in 384 Posts
They do need to be maintained though.



Needs more sheep.

EDIT - and where are the chemicals in these ones leaking to ?

__________________
[I]So long and thanks for all the fish.[/I]
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 08:40 AM   #215 (permalink)
(:
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 12,708

Blue - '93 Ford Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 Ford F150 XLT 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Ford Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 honda gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Mercury Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,568
Thanked 3,482 Times in 2,181 Posts
What chemicals?
__________________


  Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 09:58 AM   #216 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 744

redyaris - '07 Toyota Yaris
Team Toyota
90 day: 45.54 mpg (US)

Gray - '07 Suzuki GS500 F
Motorcycle
90 day: 70.4 mpg (US)

streamliner1 - '83 Honda VT500 streamliner
Motorcycle
90 day: 75.63 mpg (US)

White Whale - '12 Sprinter 2500 Cargo Van
90 day: 22.01 mpg (US)
Thanks: 81
Thanked 75 Times in 67 Posts
Why we have no wind or solar power?
Because we are so wastful and inefficiant. Most of the aternative energy systems have relatively low energy density, therefore in order to make them viable we need to reduce demand. This website is devoted to "Fuel Economy" and that is the key to all energy futures. There is more "energy" to be gained from conservation than all the other sceems put together. The Problem is that it is not "high tech" or "Sexy" in the public mind. All systems have problems listing them over and over does nothing... lets find solutions.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 10:17 AM   #217 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,107

Impala FFV - '10 Chevy Impala LT
90 day: 29.03 mpg (US)

XFE Coupe - '09 Chevy Cobalt XFE
Team Chevy
90 day: 37.13 mpg (US)

Penny's Rogue - '15 Nissan Rogue SL AWD
90 day: 27.18 mpg (US)

Cam's Rogue - '11 Nissan Rogue SV AWD
90 day: 26 mpg (US)

Elantra - '17 Hyundia Elantra SE
Team Hyundai
90 day: 44.68 mpg (US)

Cruze Limited - '16 Chevy Cruze Limited LT
90 day: 30 mpg (US)
Thanks: 253
Thanked 210 Times in 178 Posts
The reason I don't have Solar or Wind and I've looked at both is the payback isn't good enough to put the money out. I looked last week or so, $12,000(hardware only) of a grid connected solar panels using 6 hours a day will provide about 1/2 of my utility bill (20 year payback). Only way to quickly make Solar or Wind payback better is to double or triple electricty cost.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 10:36 AM   #218 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 744

redyaris - '07 Toyota Yaris
Team Toyota
90 day: 45.54 mpg (US)

Gray - '07 Suzuki GS500 F
Motorcycle
90 day: 70.4 mpg (US)

streamliner1 - '83 Honda VT500 streamliner
Motorcycle
90 day: 75.63 mpg (US)

White Whale - '12 Sprinter 2500 Cargo Van
90 day: 22.01 mpg (US)
Thanks: 81
Thanked 75 Times in 67 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by roosterk0031 View Post
The reason I don't have Solar or Wind and I've looked at both is the payback isn't good enough to put the money out. I looked last week or so, $12,000(hardware only) of a grid connected solar panels using 6 hours a day will provide about 1/2 of my utility bill (20 year payback). Only way to quickly make Solar or Wind payback better is to double or triple electricty cost.
The "pay back" or return on investment is an interesting concept that confines our thinking to the money value of things we buy. To see how limiting this Idea is ask youself what is the return on investment of a gas furnes or an electric airconditioner or even an SUV that never leaves the city?
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 09:39 PM   #219 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,848

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,325
Thanked 2,858 Times in 1,796 Posts
There are a LOT of externalized costs with carbon based energy sources -- pollution and accidents and long term effects that cost money after the profits have been made. And since they are finite, the cost will only go up and up as they become more scarce and more difficult to obtain.

Renewable energy will get lower in cost over time, and they will not run out, and they will get cleaner and cleaner over time; since you can use renewable energy to build the next generation of machines.

I think weeding is a small price to pay. The durability of panels is certainly an issue. Chickens and/or goats would make quick work of those. What broke all those panels I wonder -- small meteors or vandals or hail or... ?

Silicon based systems are the most expensive, and they are solid state; so no chemicals can leak out.
__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 11:42 AM   #220 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 5,209
Thanks: 225
Thanked 807 Times in 591 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
I think weeding is a small price to pay. The durability of panels is certainly an issue. Chickens and/or goats would make quick work of those.
Still, it illustrates the silliness of putting solar panels on the ground, when there are so many vacant roofs around.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Converting power steering to electric power steering Daox EcoModding Central 54 01-17-2017 06:16 PM
Without Clean Electricity, Plug-In Vehicles Arenít So Hot SVOboy General Efficiency Discussion 37 10-17-2008 02:35 AM
Wind Power trikkonceptz Fossil Fuel Free 13 10-09-2008 01:32 AM
Wind power testing idea extragoode Saving@Home 5 08-21-2008 12:09 PM
Bullfrog Power wind farm owner dumps his Insight for a Prius MetroMPG General Efficiency Discussion 0 12-16-2007 11:50 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com