Why We Have No Wind or Solar Power

[some_other_dave]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

There is no contest - renewables are the only ones that last as long as the Earth does, and that do not mess up the environment we depend on to live.

Is ethanol a renewable resource, then? If so, why don't we plow under all of the Brazilian rain forest and plant corn? Archer-Daniels-Midland would be pleased as punch about that, and according to you there is no pollution nor any environmental impact.

I'm not advocating for any particular power source, but I am saying that blanket statements like "no pollution" and "do not mess up the environment" are absurd. I have cited several examples already, which you seem to be ignoring.

I'm also saying that any solution we come up with will likely have to use more than just "the big fusion reactor in the sky".

-soD

[Frank Lee]

If so, why don't we plow under all of the Brazilian rain forest and plant corn? Archer-Daniels-Midland would be pleased as punch about that, and according to you there is no pollution nor any environmental impact.

[NeilBlanchard]

Chemical fertilizers (made from natural gas) and chemical pesticides are not sustainable, and corn is one of the least efficient crops in terms of energy input; so corn ethanol is not a viable biofuel. Obviously, tearing down rainforest is a stupid thing to do, for any purpose.

A crop like jatropha makes a lot more sense, and might be sustainable. It is a perennial, grows in drought conditions on marginal land, as I understand it. It has a lot of oil in it's seeds/fruit and it makes very good biodiesel.

Jatropha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All energy on Earth came originally from the sun or from the gravity generated by the Earth and/or the moon. Why wouldn't it be these be the best sources for energy?

Solar heat and solar PV, wind power, wave power, tidal power, geothermal power, small scale hydro -- none of these burn any fuel or consume anything to produce power. There is no waste produced when they are generating electricity. Their power source will keep going and going and going...

What's not to like?

[Arragonis]

They do need to be maintained though.



Needs more sheep.

EDIT - and where are the chemicals in these ones leaking to ?

[Frank Lee]

What chemicals?

[redyaris]

Why we have no wind or solar power?
Because we are so wastful and inefficiant. Most of the aternative energy systems have relatively low energy density, therefore in order to make them viable we need to reduce demand. This website is devoted to "Fuel Economy" and that is the key to all energy futures. There is more "energy" to be gained from conservation than all the other sceems put together. The Problem is that it is not "high tech" or "Sexy" in the public mind. All systems have problems listing them over and over does nothing... lets find solutions.

[roosterk0031]

The reason I don't have Solar or Wind and I've looked at both is the payback isn't good enough to put the money out. I looked last week or so, $12,000(hardware only) of a grid connected solar panels using 6 hours a day will provide about 1/2 of my utility bill (20 year payback). Only way to quickly make Solar or Wind payback better is to double or triple electricty cost.

[redyaris]

Originally Posted by roosterk0031

The reason I don't have Solar or Wind and I've looked at both is the payback isn't good enough to put the money out. I looked last week or so, $12,000(hardware only) of a grid connected solar panels using 6 hours a day will provide about 1/2 of my utility bill (20 year payback). Only way to quickly make Solar or Wind payback better is to double or triple electricty cost.

The "pay back" or return on investment is an interesting concept that confines our thinking to the money value of things we buy. To see how limiting this Idea is ask youself what is the return on investment of a gas furnes or an electric airconditioner or even an SUV that never leaves the city?

[NeilBlanchard]

There are a LOT of externalized costs with carbon based energy sources -- pollution and accidents and long term effects that cost money after the profits have been made. And since they are finite, the cost will only go up and up as they become more scarce and more difficult to obtain.

Renewable energy will get lower in cost over time, and they will not run out, and they will get cleaner and cleaner over time; since you can use renewable energy to build the next generation of machines.

I think weeding is a small price to pay. The durability of panels is certainly an issue. Chickens and/or goats would make quick work of those. What broke all those panels I wonder -- small meteors or vandals or hail or... ?

Silicon based systems are the most expensive, and they are solid state; so no chemicals can leak out.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

I think weeding is a small price to pay. The durability of panels is certainly an issue. Chickens and/or goats would make quick work of those.

Still, it illustrates the silliness of putting solar panels on the ground, when there are so many vacant roofs around.