Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-22-2015, 01:41 AM   #1 (permalink)
Corporate imperialist
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 10,086

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 243
Thanked 3,264 Times in 2,570 Posts
Wind shield deicing

So I picked up some VW heated wind shield washer nozzles.
These were likely a waste of $22.

I ohm checked them and they were reading 46ohms. Which means they only draw about 1/4 amp at 12 volts.
My guess is you power it up with your defroster, warm the mass of the nozzle assembly and pump cold fluid through it which likely makes them instantly cold again.

So for $50 I found a Delphi HTK400 wind shield washer fluid heater, originally made for commercial application ford super duty trucks.

The instructions say to wire the 2 thick leads to the battery and connect the 3rd wire to an "ignition ON" source.
Since this thing has fairly thick wires on its not going to just draw a few amps.

I am thinking just wire the "ignition on" signal wire to the defroster button circuit. That way it only draws power when I actually need it and deactivates automatically when I turn the vehicle off.
I may add the heated VW jets later.

In new mexico we have had a lot of rain lately, meaning it could be another very snowy icy winter.

Snipped from page 2...
It has 8 gauge wires not 10 gauge like I originally thought.

The internal volume is likely about a half cup. It draws 27 amps while its warming up. It takes maybe a minute to warm up.

This picture shows the wires and the heater heating up.


This picture show the vent mounted nozzles I added (OE pulled from my old blue diesel).


This picture shows the wiper mounted nozzle.

__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.

Last edited by oil pan 4; 10-22-2015 at 09:08 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 10-22-2015, 02:28 AM   #2 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Finland
Posts: 61
Thanks: 1
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Years ago I made a replacement washer fluid bottle that had a tube through it as a heat exchanger. I diverted the heater water through that tube so the bottle contents were heated and I cleared the screen with hot water. It worked, sort of, but even hot water on the screen freezes quickly in very cold conditions. I have not bothered repeating this on later cars.

One thing I was worried about was the windscreen glass cracking when I sprayed hot water on it in cold weather, but that never happened.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2015, 02:39 AM   #3 (permalink)
(:
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 12,762

Blue - '93 Ford Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 Ford F150 XLT 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Ford Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 honda gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Mercury Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,585
Thanked 3,550 Times in 2,216 Posts
I've never messed with heating windshield fluid because I rarely use it in any condition (it evaporates out of the tank mostly). It seems like trying to raise the temperature of the ocean by throwing a pot of hot water into it- too little, too late. Consider the masses of the components involved and the cooling they are subjected to.

The important thing is to have a warm windshield. For that you need a good defroster. For that plugging in an engine heater and having a grille block and an engine blanket are the best things to do, along with perhaps a safely positioned plug-in space heater aimed at the windshield before departing.

Take all that junk off the dash so the vents are unobstructed. Sometimes it really does help to put the visors down to help keep the defroster air flowing against the glass rather than dispersing into the vehicle. And it helps to reduce the causes of windshield fogging, mainly breath (crack a window or vent window a bit) and wet floors (kick the snow/water off your shoes and shake the floor mats out whenever they're wet).
__________________


  Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Frank Lee For This Useful Post:
digital rules (10-22-2015), freebeard (10-25-2015), MobilOne (10-22-2015), Piwoslaw (10-22-2015), Xist (10-23-2015)
Old 10-22-2015, 03:06 AM   #4 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Finland
Posts: 61
Thanks: 1
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lee View Post
The important thing is to have a warm windshield. For that you need a good defroster. For that plugging in an engine heater and having a grille block and an engine blanket are the best things to do, along with perhaps a safely positioned plug-in space heater aimed at the windshield before departing.
Agreed, where it is possible to plug in engine & cabin heaters. Here, most homes and many work place car parks have power sockets for this purpose and it is by far the best solution. There can be times when this is not possible though. Perhaps you need to park in the middle of nowhere all day, so no electrical engine or cabin heater. Then it is worth trying alternative solutions.

My heated washer bottle worked, but not well enough for me to repeat the experiment. I don't believe heated nozzles could be even as effective as my heated bottle. I have also tried Webasto solutions to heat up before starting the engine using the car's own battery, but it is all too easy to drain the battery for little gain.

Not sure there is a universal solution.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2015, 03:27 AM   #5 (permalink)
(:
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 12,762

Blue - '93 Ford Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 Ford F150 XLT 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Ford Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 honda gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Mercury Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,585
Thanked 3,550 Times in 2,216 Posts
Having my commuter vehicle chill down to ambient temps in a cold parking lot during work was what prompted me to begin experimenting with grille blocks and engine blankets 20 years ago; I was very disappointed that my hard-earned drivetrain heat was being all blown away during the day when parked. I had noticeably faster warm defroster air available with the block and blanket. Although a thermos hot coolant storage system would take it all to the next level.
__________________


  Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2015, 04:49 AM   #6 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Finland
Posts: 61
Thanks: 1
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Oh that's interesting. I have tried both with mixed results. My experience has been:
Grill block certainly helps a lot with faster warm ups but I have not seen it measurably reduce engine cool off when parked.
An engine blanket can help with cool off when parked for shortish periods, but not if the car is parked up for a few hours. However I had only considered the effect of a blanket on reducing cool-off of a warm engine and have not evaluated its effect on warm-up times for a cold engine.

I use a grill block but no longer bother with a blanket because in my use I rarely park the car for short enough periods for it to make much difference to engine cooling whilst parked. Do you think it is worth trying again and checking for faster warmup for a cold engine?

I too like the idea of a thermos hot coolant storage system but it is a bit beyond my fabrication skills. However I have been considering an insulated hot coolant storage system using household insulation rather than a vacuum - but for our current vehicles I have not worked out how to get this past the "acceptable to wife" test.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2015, 05:22 AM   #7 (permalink)
In the fasting lane
 
RedDevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Nieuwegein, the Netherlands
Posts: 3,988

Red Devil - '11 Honda Insight Elegance
Team Honda
90 day: 50.29 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,705
Thanked 2,229 Times in 1,444 Posts
AFAIK the windshield washer nozzles are heated only to prevent them from freezing solid when wet from rain or covered by snow.
The washer liquid should have some anti-freezing component and does not need being heated.
Usually it contains some alcoholic stuff that evaporates on the windshield and cools it down; making it fog up on the inside.

Come winter I use an insulated sunshade on the window instead.
It even keeps the car warmer by half a degree by blocking the cold sky faced surface. I usually don't have to deice the side windows when I use it; just the rear window.
I may start covering the rear window too. That must help even more.
__________________
2011 Honda Insight + HID, LEDs, tiny PV panel, extra brake pad return springs, neutral wheel alignment, 44/42 PSI (air), PHEV light (inop), tightened wheel nut.
lifetime FE over 0.17 Gmeter or 0.1 Mmile.



Investors woes:
"In hindsight, I should have placed a bet on the horse that won the race"
"In hindsight, I should have bet more on that horse"
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2015, 05:23 AM   #8 (permalink)
(:
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 12,762

Blue - '93 Ford Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 Ford F150 XLT 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Ford Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 honda gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Mercury Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,585
Thanked 3,550 Times in 2,216 Posts
I used to remove the blocks and blankets for spring-summer-fall but now I leave the blankets on all year and on the car the block stays on all year too. Never had an overheat issue due to the blankets but I have occasionally run hot on the pickup (fan delete) plus I make that truck work so the block comes off when it's above freezing. I really should put an e-fan on the truck but the issue doesn't come up enough to make it urgent.

I've found the blankets when combined with blocks to retain a useable amount of heat even after four hours in the winter, which is often brutal here. I think of the whole engine compartment as an upside-down box; don't want that heat escaping upward nor too much draft blowing it out. Could be even better with a bellypan but I've never done that.
__________________



Last edited by Frank Lee; 10-22-2015 at 05:31 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2015, 05:46 AM   #9 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Finland
Posts: 61
Thanks: 1
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
The washer liquid should have some anti-freezing component and does not need being heated.
That is mostly true nowadays. I'm not sure whether such liquid was unavailable back when I made my heated bottle, or whether I was just too cheap/poor to buy it. It was many years ago; I do remember filling up with tap water and a dash of washing up liquid.
The washer liquid I use in winter is marked as being OK down to -20C (-4F). It seems not to freeze until the temperature is well below that, but it does freeze eventually.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2015, 12:35 PM   #10 (permalink)
Corporate imperialist
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 10,086

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 243
Thanked 3,264 Times in 2,570 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
AFAIK the windshield washer nozzles are heated only to prevent them from freezing solid when wet from rain or covered by snow.
That is good point. I had not considered that.

I tried covering the wind shield a few times. It started out working great then the windshield would frost over about the time I got up to speed.

__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.

Last edited by oil pan 4; 10-22-2015 at 12:44 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com