Wind turbines

[oil pan 4]

Yeah Mitsubishi wind turbines are by far the worst.
If anything was going to be stripped down and rebuilt it would be Mitsubishis.

[seifrob]

What do you think about SkySails power application? (https://www.skysails.info/en/power/skysails-power/). Basically it is a kite on a generator-motor winch.

They seem to use much fewer resources than traditional wind turbines. Too pity they obviously did not make it past prototype stage.

[oil pan 4]

Those are being used on large ships.
Transocean commerce started with wind power, went to coal and now oil. Eventually it will probably go back to coal eventually and then wind.

[Piotrsko]

I can see them doing wind, but coal in enclosed metal areas is explosively scarey not to mention radioactive

[oil pan 4]

When oil is going for $20 to $30 per million BTUs and coal is still less than $3 per million BTU expect to see a return to coal.
I would burn coal if I could find it.

[Piotrsko]

You can buy coal. Just difficult to get it delivered cheaply. I can buy it from the local fuel place, but it isn't $3 a megbtu. I think it is $100 a ton on my doorstep

[NeilBlanchard]

Here's a twist on wind power:

https://x.company/makani/

A tether instead of a tower. An aircraft instead of a nacelle. Multiple small turbines at a very high elevation instead of one massive set of blades.

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by Piotrsko

You can buy coal. Just difficult to get it delivered cheaply. I can buy it from the local fuel place, but it isn't $3 a megbtu. I think it is $100 a ton on my doorstep

If coal is 12,000BTU per pound then 1 ton is 24 million BTU, or about $4 per million BTU, which is cheaper than natural gas.

I was thinking coal might be a little cheaper if delivered by the train load to a ship yard.

[seifrob]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Those are being used on large ships.
Transocean commerce started with wind power, went to coal and now oil. Eventually it will probably go back to coal eventually and then wind.

Actually, the kite system I referred is wind power generator. They use wind force to unwind a rope and generate electricity, then reel the kite in and start again. I think it is elegant solution.

There is an animation that explains it better than I can.

[solarguy]

The great equalizer is EROEI.

Wiki has a not-too-bad overview. EROEI is better for fossil fuels, but the numbers steadily get worse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy...nergy_invested

And if you drill down for very specific numbers from any particular industry, you have to look at the methodology. I am particularly suspicious of the nuke industry ignoring or discounting the very long storage requirement for the waste. And for those who say just recycle and re-use, that loop absolutely must produce plutonium, which raises the risk for production of very efficient nukes. Also, France's experiment with recycling fuels turned out to be dirty and expensive.