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Old 09-12-2018, 05:20 PM   #41 (permalink)
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I believe that I read an article about how China is building coal fired plants faster than anyone.
They don't appear to be increasing solars producing capacity share much, they sure aren't replacing coal capacity with solar.

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Old 09-12-2018, 06:36 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Buckminster Fuller proposed indoor windmills. I haven't gone back into the original source material, but here's a story from 2012:

https://butterflyofdream.wordpress.com/.../geodesic-windmill-domes/

Air moving over a dome can drive an interior air circulation pattern. Plus the omni-directional increase in wind-speed at the summit. The construction would be lighter than a tower (potentially bamboo and ETFE foil) and all maintenance would be indoors.

Plus which, the interior of the dome is available for concentrated solar or pig farming.
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Old 09-13-2018, 10:48 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
I believe that I read an article about how China is building coal fired plants faster than anyone.
They don't appear to be increasing solars producing capacity share much, they sure aren't replacing coal capacity with solar.
I'm not sure if they are building new - it sounds like they had an over-supply of electricity for a bit there. But they are bringing some of the coal stations back online.

https://www.chinadialogue.net/blog/1...power-again/en

Using coal to make electricity to mine the materials, and build a solar panel, and likely to power the ship that brings it to me, is not my first choice.

But in my area (Alberta/Saskatchewan Canada) we use coal to generate the electricity to refine oil. Our grid is mostly coal and natural gas fired. Any solar or wind, no matter how much pollution is required to manufacture it ... is better than burning coal and natural gas to make the electricity, to refine the gas and diesel, to burn the gas and diesel to truck it to my local gas station, to burn the gas and diesel in my truck ... That's not counting the coal that was required to mine the metal to make the machinery that digs the coal, or transports the coal, or transport the machinery ... it's just a depressing spiral of processing ... each step requires more coal

My only small deviation from being a complete hypocrite is that I get better mileage out of a full-sized F150 that I did in my old Hyundai Santa Fe ...
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Old 09-13-2018, 12:00 PM   #44 (permalink)
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It's a vicious cycle. I find it irritating when people pretend like not one daisy was stepped on or one dandy lion plucked in the creation of solar panels.


Hyundai SantaFe sucks for fuel milage.
Who would have thought that a gutless, small 4cyl could get such bad MPG.
I know all about it, I already talked my wife out of getting one.
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Old 09-13-2018, 12:26 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Here in upstate NY (42 N, 72 W) we have several wind farms and community solar farms. We are rich in natural gas. The decision to ban fracking is political rather than science based. Micro hydro is under utilized. Planned economies run by Marxist ideology give little concern to environmental issues. It's all about securing power for the ruling party elites. Geography plays a big role in deciding what forms of sustainable energy can be developed.
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Old 09-13-2018, 12:39 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Quote:
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First off about 70% of Chinese electricity is generated by coal and solar cell and solar panel production is an energy intensive process. Plus think of all the metals that go into solar panels, aluminum, copper, silver, the glass and all the rare earth stuff.
They don't just miracle them selves into existence with out any pollution or destruction.

If solar power is so cheap then why does china use mostly coal power to make panels that they sell to other countries?
"If solar was cheaper than coal" why don't they just use solar power for every thing since they make 70 or 80% of the world's solar panels?
What rare earth stuff is used in solar panels?

China is building more renewable energy systems than the US and Europe PUT TOGETHER.
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Old 09-13-2018, 12:51 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Those of us who lived and worked for decades in PA and NY get weary of folks coming here telling us how terrible things are. We know all too well. We are not stupid. We do not shoot unicorns for meat... Each form of energy production has costs and benefits that must be carefully weighed. The human costs should be given the most weight. Aluminum, steel, and glass all require substantial amounts of energy to produce and may generate waste products that need processing. To Neil and others who I greatly respect, I say come and see for yourself the progress that we are making.
There are a number of materials used in making solar cells. Some are toxic such as cadmium and arsenic. Silicon is very common.

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Old 09-13-2018, 02:46 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
I believe that I read an article about how China is building coal fired plants faster than anyone.
They don't appear to be increasing solars producing capacity share much, they sure aren't replacing coal capacity with solar.
You believe.
I gave the Wiki link that proves, with references, that China is scaling up rapidly on solar panels contrary to your believes.
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Old 09-13-2018, 04:17 PM   #49 (permalink)
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What rare earth stuff is used in solar panels?

China is building more renewable energy systems than the US and Europe PUT TOGETHER.
Thin film use indium and tellurium.

I never said china was not building solar capacity.

I just said china builds something like 70 to 80% of the worlds solar panels.
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Old 09-13-2018, 04:22 PM   #50 (permalink)
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You believe.
I gave the Wiki link that proves, with references, that China is scaling up rapidly on solar panels contrary to your believes.
Then why is china the words fastest growing CO2 producer for 2017?
People say they are putting in all this solar but they continue to produce more and more CO2 each year.
Are all these solar panels now some how emitting CO2?

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