Wind turbines

[Piotrsko]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

If coal is 12,000BTU per pound then 1 ton is 24 million BTU, or about $4 per million BTU, which is cheaper than natural gas.

I was thinking coal might be a little cheaper if delivered by the train load to a ship yard.

Delivery is much cheaper by the hopper, but who has space for 100 tons, then you have to move it from the yard unless you also have a dedicated pit siding to drop into waiting delivery system. The cement plant I used to live by could offload 16 railcars before they ran out of storage.

Handling and storage are your main problems raising cost.

[NeilBlanchard]

Coal - How is This Still a Thing?

We blow up mountains. Which poisons the water.
We pay other human beings to go down deep underground to dig it out of the ground. We rent their lungs and their backs.
We ship it. Which spreads dust all over.
We "wash" it. Which requires chemicals. Which poisons the water. Ooops - we spilled it!
We burn it. Which changes the climate. Which produces mercury pollution. Which produces deadly pollutants, and acid rain. Which produces fly ash. Which has spilled. Which poisons the water.

Coal ruins the land.
Coal ruins the air.
Coal ruins the water.
Coal causes climate change.
Coal kills miners.

Coal kills.

[redpoint5]

Well, the fellas above just discussed how coal is still a thing. Everything has trade-offs.

I could replace the word "coal" with "people" in every single thing you've said above, and it would still make sense.

Sometime in the future when we're all humming away on nuclear energy, we'll look back and wonder why that was so difficult.

[oil pan 4]

Coal burned for power generation uses bag houses to collect the fly ash. The fly ash gets used to make concrete.
Hopefully I will be using coal to heat my house when I can find a supply channel.

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

We blow up mountains.
ruins the land.
ruins the air.
ruins the water.
climate change.
kills miners.

kills.

Just replace coal with "Chinese solar panels" and you get the same thing.

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Well, the fellas above just discussed how coal is still a thing. Everything has trade-offs.

I could replace the word "coal" with "people" in every single thing you've said above, and it would still make sense.

Sometime in the future when we're all humming away on nuclear energy, we'll look back and wonder why that was so difficult.

When the power starts going out people will drop the fake outrage and forget about the over hyped dangers of nuclear power.
All the evil fly ash can supply thorium for next gen reactors and if the uranium price goes over and stays above $50 to $60 per pound it becomes economical to mine uranium from fly ash.

[Piotrsko]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Coal - How is This Still a Thing?.

Idunno, perhaps you should ask The Donald

[oil pan 4]

A large portion of our power comes from coal.
0bama did nothing to stop coal fired power production, he closed the worst of the worst polluting plants.
If he really wanted to get rid of coal he would have restated the United States nuclear fuel recycling system, which he did and pushed nuclear power, which he quitely did but barely made any effort, if he would have made a real effort to push nuclear a good chunk of the oldest plants could have been closed around 2030.

[NeilBlanchard]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Coal burned for power generation uses bag houses to collect the fly ash. The fly ash gets used to make concrete.
Hopefully I will be using coal to heat my house when I can find a supply channel.



Just replace coal with "Chinese solar panels" and you get the same thing.

How do solar panels blow up mountains, and give people black lung, and cause mercury poisoning?

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

A large portion of our power comes from coal.
0bama did nothing to stop coal fired power production, he closed the worst of the worst polluting plants.
If he really wanted to get rid of coal he would have restated the United States nuclear fuel recycling system, which he did and pushed nuclear power, which he quitely did but barely made any effort, if he would have made a real effort to push nuclear a good chunk of the oldest plants could have been closed around 2030.

We are closing coal plants all the time - it is too expensive. We are down to under 38%, last I heard. We are adding renewables more and more, and we will be much better off.

[oil pan 4]

First off about 70% of Chinese electricity is generated by coal and solar cell and solar panel production is an energy intensive process. Plus think of all the metals that go into solar panels, aluminum, copper, silver, the glass and all the rare earth stuff.
They don't just miracle them selves into existence with out any pollution or destruction.

If solar power is so cheap then why does china use mostly coal power to make panels that they sell to other countries?
"If solar was cheaper than coal" why don't they just use solar power for every thing since they make 70 or 80% of the world's solar panels?

[RedDevil]

It takes time, but they are under way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_China

China is the world's largest market for both photovoltaics and solar thermal energy. Since 2013 China has been the world's leading installer of solar photovoltaics (PV). In 2015, China became the world's largest producer of photovoltaic power, narrowly surpassing Germany.[1][2][3] By the end of 2016, total PV capacity had increased to over 77.4 GW,[4] and in 2017 China was the first country to pass 100 GW of cumulative installed PV capacity.[5] As of May 2018, China holds the record for largest operational solar project in its 1,547-MW project at Tengger.[6] The contribution to the total electric energy production remains modest[7] as the average capacity factor of solar power plants is relatively low at 17% on average. Of the 6,412 TWh electricity produced in China in 2017,[8] 118.2 TWh was generated by solar power, equivalent to 1.84% of total electricity production.[9] The goal for 2050 is to reach 1,300 GW of solar capacity. If this goal is to be reached it would be the source with the largest installed capacity in China.[10]

More than anyone else. But still just a fraction of their total energy production. For now.

It takes energy to make solar panels, but it is just a fraction of the energy they produce.
It takes energy to build a coal plant too, but then pollution does not stop when the plant is ready.