Would a modern car with drum brakes all-around still have a chance?

[j-c-c]

Originally Posted by JSH

Yes, a drum can stop as fast as a disk - once. Then they start overheating and fading. Overheating a set of brakes on even a modern vehicle with discs is not that uncommon. ..........

Really?
When has that happened to you under normal driving conditions?
BTW, I'm pretty sure every car in proper condition can bring a car to a full stop with the throttle wide open, except maybe Audi's?

[freebeard]

Why does that matter? Push the button and walk away. Yes, the electric motor makes noise - it does in cars too.

It doesn't -- except to me.

Mechanical parking brakes make noise too - just a different noise. Mine makes a click - click - click as the lever passes each ratchet and then a loud pop when I release the parking brake and the pedal pops back up.

I prefer a lever on the center tunnel. I can push in the button and bleed off speed without the brake lights coming on.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by j-c-c

Really?
When has that happened to you under normal driving conditions?
BTW, I'm pretty sure every car in proper condition can bring a car to a full stop with the throttle wide open, except maybe Audi's?

When has it happened to me? It hasn't because I know enough to downshift to a lower gear instead of just riding the brakes for miles descending a mountain pass. Apparently a lot of people didn't pay attention in driver's ed or they didn't take driver's ed. Passes are a normal part of driving and again, we are talking real mountain passes here - not Florida mountains.

This is a real sign I snapped a picture of on a tour of Florida National Parks.

[j-c-c]

Originally Posted by JSH

When has it happened to me? It hasn't because I know enough to downshift to a lower gear instead of just riding the brakes for miles descending a mountain pass. Apparently a lot of people didn't pay attention in driver's ed or they didn't take driver's ed. Passes are a normal part of driving and again, we are talking real mountain passes here - not Florida mountains.

This is a real sign I snapped a picture of on a tour of Florida National Parks.

Well. this is confusing. Discs are supported by reason of brake fade, but they fade also, and if a driver is incompetent, there is no solution to brake fade, so the reason drums are shunned again?

Regarding my domicile being in the average lowest/flattest state in the nation. in 5+ decades of driving in 46 states and 37 countries, I have driven a few mountain passes, in cars and semi's BTW.

That elevation sign is inaccurate btw, there is over 3' of elevation change in that picture, unless you were standing in the ocean when you snapped it.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by j-c-c

Well. this is confusing. Discs are supported by reason of brake fade, but they fade also, and if a driver is incompetent, there is no solution to brake fade, so the reason drums are shunned again?

Discs fade less than drums. They have a larger safety factor when it comes to road vehicles.

For racing - drums simply aren't up to the task and performance road cars like to mimic race cars. Which is why the switch from drum to discs went: Race cars, performance / sports cars, regular cars.

Large wheels / short sidewalls had the same progression until fashion took over and continued the trend well past any performance reasons.

Originally Posted by j-c-c

Regarding my domicile being in the average lowest/flattest state in the nation. in 5+ decades of driving in 46 states and 37 countries, I have driven a few mountain passes, in cars and semi's BTW.

And in all those travels have you not smelled hot brakes from some idiot that doesn't know enough to downshift? Have you not seen the runaway truck ramps designed to catch truckers that have overcooked their brakes?

Originally Posted by j-c-c

That elevation sign is inaccurate btw, there is over 3' of elevation change in that picture, unless you were standing in the ocean when you snapped it.

I'm assuming the sign refers to the natural geology not that man-made road built over it.

[Piotrsko]

To continue JSH's rant I can add two words: axle fire. Get the brakes so hot the lube oil catches fire. Kinda beyond brake fade towards suicide

Saw that a lot on the grapevine which is pretty much straight, it is even worse downhill on 80.

[freebeard]

https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Hot_box
Hot box - Wikipedia
A hot box is the term used when an axle bearing overheats on a piece of railway rolling stock. [1] The term is derived from the journal-bearing trucks used before the mid-20th century.

The railroads found a solution, watching for fireballs passing by, at least until the current Department of Transport

https://www.cnn.com › 2023 › 02 › 25 › us › ohio-train-derailment-bearing-vibration › index.html
Hot box detectors didn't stop the East Palestine derailment ... - CNN
25 Feb 2023A preliminary report from the East Palestine derailment, released Thursday by the National Transportation Safety Board, found hot box sensors detected that a wheel bearing was heating up miles...

This could work if there were some way to respond to an alert. Maybe a pop-up safety net as on aircraft carriers?

[j-c-c]

Originally Posted by Piotrsko

To continue JSH's rant I can add two words: axle fire. Get the brakes so hot the lube oil catches fire. Kinda beyond brake fade towards suicide

Saw that a lot on the grapevine which is pretty much straight, it is even worse downhill on 80.

Ok, Axle fires are outside the scope here of this discussion. That has little to do with Drum Vs Disc discussion. A brake stressed Disc operates at a much higher temp than a drum, anybody seen a drum bright orange on braking?

Besides there is hardly anything that can be incorporated to overcome stupid drivers, except I assume nobody here has descended Pikes Peak in a street car??

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Axle fires might not be so usual in my country because heavy-duty truck drivers here are often reminded to use exhaust-brakes while going downhill. There are even some "use freio-motor" signs at roadsides. Not sure if most trucks having air brakes instead of hydraulic also decrease the likelihood of an axle fire.

Originally Posted by freebeard

I prefer a lever on the center tunnel. I can push in the button and bleed off speed without the brake lights coming on.

I also prefer a lever on the center tunnel for the e-brake. Also tried to use the e-brake instead of the brake pedal once, as the traffic was too slow for me to quickly move my right foot from the accelerator to the brake (not to mention it had manual transmission, so the left foot was on the clutch pedal).

[j-c-c]

Air brake side of the brake system is nearly immune of effects of overheated brake use, Hydraulic over heated brakes can cause brake fluid to boil, greatly affected by any water absorption in the fluid. Truck discs can be actuated by air, or hydraulic.

Not aware of any recent correctly designated "E brakes" in use, especially with rear discs, they are merely parking brakes, and little more.