HHO project for high school (vx?)

[gijoe985]

Hi all,

So, I teach high school auto shop and I am considering setting up an HHO system for a high school project. The idea is that we would build a system as a class and then try to test the results on one or two vehicles. I know there has been a lot of mixed opinions on the topic, so I thought it would be a good project to try to set up some good scientific test cases.

A couple of questions I have for you guys-

1) does anybody have any suggestions on how we could run accurate tests? I know there has been a lot of speculation as to whether the hydrogen is helping the fuel economy or the assisting modifications.

2) I am hoping to try it out on both a carburated and a fuel injected vehicle. But for the fuel injected vehicle, I had considered using my own Civic VX. my main question is, in theory, how will it work on a lean burn motor?

It may be a total bust, but either way it will be a good experience for the kids...

[MetroMPG]

It'll be a good experience if you can sort out a solid testing method, otherwise it'll only be confusion at best, misinformation at worst!

I take it there's no dyno available in this shop.

[gijoe985]

No dyno, but there are plenty of practical power tests we can run.

I.e. time it takes to accelerate from 1500-4000rpm in 3rd gear.

I have mpguino for the civic and for the carbureted vehicle I am prepared to drain the gas tank, put in a measured 2 gallons, run a controlled test of driving a specific distance at a steady vacuum reading and then drain the tank to see what we have left. (Or just see the average change over a period of a few tanks of freeway driving.)

I cannot deny that there is a part of me that hopes to find some credibility to it, but I'll be happy to have solid results either way.

[JRMichler]

You might start by having your students read this thread: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ery-11445.html

I suggest that be followed by a written test. Only those that get a good grade, say a solid B, get to build and test the gadget.

Or better yet, follow up with this thread: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...-mpg-5170.html and have them pick a modification to build and test.

[ConnClark]

Fail!

[gijoe985]

Originally Posted by ConnClark

Fail!

???

Not very constructive...

[AndrzejM]

Originally Posted by gijoe985

I have mpguino for the civic and for the carbureted vehicle I am prepared to drain the gas tank, put in a measured 2 gallons, run a controlled test of driving a specific distance at a steady vacuum reading and then drain the tank to see what we have left.

I think that can be actually a good idea to use some external small tank with easy to measure amount of fuel. 2 gallons for example. It can be done from a canister maybe? Just be sure that it will be safe, fuel won't be leaking and you'll have some venting pipe to be sure that vacuum won't build up in that tank. And it should be big enough to let you install fuel pump (if VX has pump in the tank). If high pressure pump is external you don't need to be worry about that just put the tank slightly above the high pressure pump.

Try to build something similar to tank that Mythbusters are using in their tests.

Mythbusters

I think that will be the most accurate method of measuring FE. I wouldn't trust MPGuino in this case if you want to be sure of the numbers you'll get.

[ConnClark]

Originally Posted by gijoe985

???

Not very constructive...

Okay how about first trying to quantify the efficiency of the vehicles alternator.

Step 1: Drive the alternator connected to your HHO cell with an electric motor.

Step 2: Measure the power out ( Volts X Amps ) of the alternator.

Step 3: Measure the power used by the electric motor ( Volts X Amps ) to drive the the alternator.

Step 4: Divide the value obtained in step 2 by the value in step 3.

Step 5: Realize that your HHO cell is only 75% efficient.

Step 6: Realize that only 30% of the HHO energy gets converted to usable power in the engine.

Step 7: Realize you only get 1/7th (at best) the energy back of what you put in.

[Frank Lee]

It is the discovery process that is most important. Or it could be the research process which could save all the effort of the fab and testing processes.

[gone-ot]

...typically, "burnt fingers" teach far more than book-learning "theory."