12-31-2014, 11:07 PM
|
#1 (permalink)
|
EcoModding Apprentice
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Alaska
Posts: 100
Thanks: 5
Thanked 65 Times in 27 Posts
|
BSFC (brake specific fuel consumption) explained
There is a great explanation of BSFC on this webpage:
"Brake Specific Fuel Consumption: A really useful concept"
by Julian Edgar (2008)
AutoSpeed - Brake Specific Fuel Consumption
It is a much more complicated and engine-specific topic than I realized, even from the various discussions and BSFC mapping on EcoModder.
|
|
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Focus-Ak For This Useful Post:
|
|
Today
|
|
|
Other popular topics in this forum...
|
|
|
01-04-2015, 10:07 PM
|
#2 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Phillips, WI
Posts: 1,016
Thanks: 188
Thanked 467 Times in 287 Posts
|
It is a good explanation of BSFC. The only thing lacking is some constant power curves overlaid on the BSFC diagram. Some constant power curves would show exactly why low RPM is usually good.
__________________
06 Canyon: The vacuum gauge plus wheel covers helped increase summer 2015 mileage to 38.5 MPG, while summer 2016 mileage was 38.6 MPG without the wheel covers. Drove 33,021 miles 2016-2018 at 35.00 MPG.
22 Maverick: Summer 2022 burned 62.74 gallons in 3145.1 miles for 50.1 MPG. Winter 2023-2024 - 2416.7 miles, 58.66 gallons for 41 MPG.
|
|
|
01-05-2015, 01:56 PM
|
#3 (permalink)
|
Mechanical engineer
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kitee (Finland)
Posts: 1,272
Thanks: 270
Thanked 841 Times in 414 Posts
|
Here is one constant power curve for 1.2 TDI with some reference points on my Audi A8 project with vaious gear and Cd ratios.
You can clearly see that if you just lower your drag your engine efficiency will get worse. that is the reason why you should always match your gear ratios when you lower your drag figures.
|
|
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Vekke For This Useful Post:
|
|
01-05-2015, 02:28 PM
|
#4 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Phillips, WI
Posts: 1,016
Thanks: 188
Thanked 467 Times in 287 Posts
|
To help interpret Vekke's graph:
If you need 7.5 hp (5.6 kW) at a particular speed, the best gear ratio is that which has the engine running about 1400 RPM at that speed.
If you need 15 hp (11.2 kW) at a particular speed, the best gear ratio is that which has the engine running about 2000 RPM at that speed.
If you need 60 hp (45 kW), you don't have a choice. You only get that much power at about 4600 RPM. But if you keep the gas pedal on the floor, and change gears to get 3300 RPM, the power drops slightly to about 56 hp and the specific fuel consumption improves from about 250 to 222 g/kWh. That's 13% better (more efficient) use of the fuel.
__________________
06 Canyon: The vacuum gauge plus wheel covers helped increase summer 2015 mileage to 38.5 MPG, while summer 2016 mileage was 38.6 MPG without the wheel covers. Drove 33,021 miles 2016-2018 at 35.00 MPG.
22 Maverick: Summer 2022 burned 62.74 gallons in 3145.1 miles for 50.1 MPG. Winter 2023-2024 - 2416.7 miles, 58.66 gallons for 41 MPG.
|
|
|
01-05-2015, 02:54 PM
|
#5 (permalink)
|
EcoModding Apprentice
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Alaska
Posts: 100
Thanks: 5
Thanked 65 Times in 27 Posts
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vekke
Here is one constant power curve for 1.2 TDI with some reference points on my Audi A8 project with vaious gear and Cd ratios. ... [chart] ... You can clearly see that if you just lower your drag your engine efficiency will get worse. that is the reason why you should always match your gear ratios when you lower your drag figures.
|
Or another way to look it is that the engine is now over-sized. So if there were more time and $ for the project, a re-engining may be productive both in improving engine efficiency and in reducing weight. (Which in turn means a slightly smaller engine is needed, which means less weight, which means ... which is why aircraft design, for example, is an iterative process).
Interesting curves and data points. Thanks for posting this.
|
|
|
01-05-2015, 03:21 PM
|
#6 (permalink)
|
Mechanical engineer
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kitee (Finland)
Posts: 1,272
Thanks: 270
Thanked 841 Times in 414 Posts
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMichler
To help interpret Vekke's graph:
If you need 7.5 hp (5.6 kW) at a particular speed, the best gear ratio is that which has the engine running about 1400 RPM at that speed.
If you need 15 hp (11.2 kW) at a particular speed, the best gear ratio is that which has the engine running about 2000 RPM at that speed.
If you need 60 hp (45 kW), you don't have a choice. You only get that much power at about 4600 RPM. But if you keep the gas pedal on the floor, and change gears to get 3300 RPM, the power drops slightly to about 56 hp and the specific fuel consumption improves from about 250 to 222 g/kWh. That's 13% better (more efficient) use of the fuel.
|
5,6 kW was correct in my opinion
For the 11,2kW I would say the optimal rpm is that 1800 RPM? but in general you have also take into account how many gear you will have at speeds you are using the most. I am trying to optimise my gears for highway use meaning 62-100 MPH cruising speeds. That means tallest gear ratios are always better.
For 45kW I have plenty of options in my car as there will be 89 kW+ available in the first stage. But with stock engine BSFC map that this is there is not much choices.
|
|
|
01-05-2015, 03:23 PM
|
#7 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Missoula, MT
Posts: 2,668
Thanks: 305
Thanked 1,187 Times in 813 Posts
|
What I don't understand is why cars with cylinder deactivation end that deactivation almost as soon as you give it some throttle. I would like to be able to lock in the deactivation and increase throttle and load for a better BSFC. I wonder if it is just to hard on the working cylinders.
|
|
|
01-05-2015, 03:24 PM
|
#8 (permalink)
|
Mechanical engineer
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kitee (Finland)
Posts: 1,272
Thanks: 270
Thanked 841 Times in 414 Posts
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Focus-Ak
Or another way to look it is that the engine is now over-sized. So if there were more time and $ for the project, a re-engining may be productive both in improving engine efficiency and in reducing weight. (Which in turn means a slightly smaller engine is needed, which means less weight, which means ... which is why aircraft design, for example, is an iterative process).
Interesting curves and data points. Thanks for posting this.
|
- Yes you can recalculate the gear ratios to match Cd drop
- Add more weigth do match Cd drop
- Downsize the engine to match Cd drop
From those options the gear ratios are easiest to play with. However I would say the 1.2 TDI is perfectly sized for this A8 project.
|
|
|
01-10-2015, 11:46 PM
|
#9 (permalink)
|
Lots of Questions
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: San Jose
Posts: 665
Thanks: 343
Thanked 101 Times in 79 Posts
|
I'm confused about the bsfc map. How do they get the "islands"? I understand the straight line, but don't get where the circles come from. Are those based on the change in throttle opening?
Also, what makes the red island the best? Why doesn't highest load and lowest RPM produce the best BSFC (and thus MPG)?
Hopefully, this isn't painfully obvious where I'm just overlooking something. I'm probably just slow...
__________________
Don't forget to like our Facebook page!
Best EM Quotes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead
It has been said, that if you peel the duct tape back on Earth's equator, you'll find that the two hemispheres are held together with J B Weld.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan9
subscribed with a soda.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead
If you're burning,and someone throws gasoline on you,there will be a localized cooling effect, but you're still on fire.
|
|
|
|
01-11-2015, 11:19 AM
|
#10 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,927
Thanks: 877
Thanked 2,024 Times in 1,304 Posts
|
The "island" is a range of speed (horizontal) in RPMs and load (vertical) in percentage of full (100%) load.
1500-2500 at no more that 80% of full load is a good average for gasoline engines, avoiding full load enrichment. In Diesels the load is closer to 100%.
regards
mech
|
|
|
|