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Old 01-19-2013, 12:43 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serialk11r View Post
I think usually the case is that peak BSFC is at a slightly lower rpm than the peak BSFC at WOT. Your peak WOT BSFC is at ~2000rpm, which is a really slow engine speed! Peak BSFC might arrive at something like 1900rpm and 85% of that torque.
which graph are you talking about? the impreza? in that case the sweetspot is between 1800-3000rpm. notice how narrow the scale is. it's only 0.005 lb/hp/hr difference between 2000 and 1800/3000rpm (that's about 2%).

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Old 01-19-2013, 10:00 PM   #12 (permalink)
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the new 3.9 version apparently supports part throttle calculations and variable valve timing
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Old 01-21-2013, 10:35 PM   #13 (permalink)
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hmmm no

$500 for software that does not connect to the car ...
ok
it calculates things based on inputs that are supplied by the user , assuming the software writers did their job correctly ...

the user can see calculations which may or may not be correct or close to correct
neat ? then what ? will you be able to measure or test the results of your tampering to see if there is an improvement in something ? or an UN improvement ?
no you can not not even a little ....

but
imho it is better to be able to measure what is really happening


another calculated value BUT based on inputs from the actual car MEASURED by the software , if you change something the software will MEASURE it and the values will be reflected in the graph or log or whatever
Escan by ats

and

SpeedTracer a no extra charge clingon in AutoEnginuity

yes
both have a learning curve , but both of these software s actually connect to your system and measure changes in your system , modifications can be MEASURED and TESTED

software that calculates but does not measure ?
define educated guess. there are online calculators that guess very well ,
results based on user inputs and the online software calculations.
they are free .

you can not accurately calculate VE at partial load .

Test do not guess .

Last edited by mwebb; 01-21-2013 at 10:42 PM.. Reason: verify
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:32 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwebb View Post
$500 for software that does not connect to the car ...
ok
it calculates things based on inputs that are supplied by the user , assuming the software writers did their job correctly ...

the user can see calculations which may or may not be correct or close to correct
neat ? then what ? will you be able to measure or test the results of your tampering to see if there is an improvement in something ? or an UN improvement ?
no you can not not even a little ....

but
imho it is better to be able to measure what is really happening


another calculated value BUT based on inputs from the actual car MEASURED by the software , if you change something the software will MEASURE it and the values will be reflected in the graph or log or whatever
Escan by ats

and

SpeedTracer a no extra charge clingon in AutoEnginuity

yes
both have a learning curve , but both of these software s actually connect to your system and measure changes in your system , modifications can be MEASURED and TESTED

software that calculates but does not measure ?
define educated guess. there are online calculators that guess very well ,
results based on user inputs and the online software calculations.
they are free .

you can not accurately calculate VE at partial load .

Test do not guess .
cool stuff, but this was not about accuracy. this was more about simulations in engine build and the fun factor in it. BSFC was just an example i was giving and nothing to be relied upon. The most interesting thing about this software is learning what affects certain performance aspect of powertrain. ie. smaller diameter/length runners improve low end torque or retarding cam timing can improve top end performance + reduce knock. wasn't trying to or even pretending to actually use data from this system. Even still the torque curve i posted above is a 90% match to the torque curve my vehicle pulled on a chassis dyno. specially the cummins 5.9L which is almost identical to manufacturer specs. 90% coincidence? maybe, but i'm not too sure...
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:42 AM   #15 (permalink)
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no input for aerodynamics

no input for aerodynamics on a chassis dyno or the engine calculation software

you can learn a great deal from scan data
when viewed in real time
before and
after a
tampering event

most tampering reduces FE and power output in the real world
you will never know this unless you have a way to measure it
you can not measure it with out the correct tooling .

you can not guess accurately
the software predicts results based on expensive changes to the engine in your car
changes that will most likely result in problems and reductions in every thing that is good .... then what .... can you un ring the bell ?

it is time consuming to learn theory and then implement it
successfully
it is impossible to do if you do not have a way to evaluate
in real world conditions
what you have changed

$400 dollar software VCDS
Knock retard per cylinder and exhaust gas temperature per bank
VW R32 2008 at wide open throttle pass

or graph any other parameter ID from the menu
which software will provide a way to actually test modifications in the real world .... test ? or guess ?
the choice is clear.

Last edited by mwebb; 01-23-2013 at 12:52 AM.. Reason: test or guess
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:48 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwebb View Post

you can learn a great deal from scan data
Very true--but you have to actually have a physical piece of equipment to test on. The "Engine Analyzer" lets you test many different simulated engines with different induction, exhaust, possibly different jetting, and so on.

It is no substitute for testing an actual working engine, it is a complement to that. It can help you avoid dead-ends when trying to spec out an engine setup that you want to build. Once it's built, then you can test and tune and optimize.

-soD
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:06 PM   #17 (permalink)
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i know mwebb i have a bit of tunning experience with hondas and subarus. i have seen friends use escan and speedtracer. but they have a totally different purpose compared to EAP. apples and oranges....its like saying dont use a flight simulator just hop on the plane and do it old school.

dave i couldnt agree more.
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Old 01-26-2013, 01:05 AM   #18 (permalink)
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no - you can not test and tune and optimise

no
the average joe can not test and tune and optimize engine internals
they have no clue how to disassemble then reassemble an engine from a car built later than around 2000 , let alone the tooling .

so for the average joe
the software you are promoting is right next to
useless ,
worse than that it may / will cause people to begin projects that can never be successful because the average joe has no theory and no tools to use the info that may be gleaned from the software and to apply it to his car

and because the software in his car will be angered by his tampering and he will not be able to comprehend why , should he get the whole mess running again , however unlikely that really is .

on the other hand
scan tool software can measure simple modifications to intake / exhaust / aerodynamics / suspension to verify improvement or lack thereof and
it is much more likely that the average joe can apply that data to his tampering along with the limited tooling and level of theory that the average joe has
imho

this forum is or appears to be all about the average joe
they average joe would be better served spending the dollars on tools and scan tools and studying up on theory BEFORE delving into re engineering the engine in his car .

pain is a good teacher but it is better to learn the lesson without the pain


Last edited by mwebb; 01-26-2013 at 01:13 AM.. Reason: understand theory
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