Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Hybrids
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-08-2016, 03:22 PM   #21 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Missoula, MT
Posts: 1,126
Thanks: 75
Thanked 356 Times in 243 Posts
I was going to say the Hyundai beats the gen 1 insight using the current testing standards, even the manual. I like a manual as well but most people don't want them, add the extra seats, and this is definitely a step forward.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 12-08-2016, 03:39 PM   #22 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 19,318

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
90 day: 67.58 mpg (US)

ForkenSwift - '92 Geo Metro EV
Last 3: 95.68 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 38.25 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,979
Thanked 4,684 Times in 2,343 Posts
EPA cycles are one thing, but it in the real world it wouldn't touch a gen 1 Insight in lean burn cruise.
__________________
Latest mods test: 15 mods = 15% MPG improvement: A-B test, 2007 Honda Civic 1.8L, 5-speed
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown: Nissan Micra 1.6L



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MetroMPG For This Useful Post:
BabyDiesel (03-22-2017), Xist (01-02-2017)
Old 12-08-2016, 04:06 PM   #23 (permalink)
...beats walking...
 
Old Tele man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 5,827
Thanks: 147
Thanked 1,313 Times in 979 Posts
Bring back "lean burn"...resurrect Charles Lindbergh and ask him *how* he taught the P-38 pilots in the Pacific to 'squeeze' almost twice the milage out of their Allison engines during 'open-ocean' patrols.
__________________
2014 Toyota Prius 1.8L eCVT
2009 Pontiac Vibe 1.8L/SFI 4A
2004 Pontiac Vibe 1.8L/MFI 4A

2011 Chevrolet LTZ Cruze 1.4LT 6A
1971 Dodge Charger 318 3A
1970 Plymouth AAR 'Cuda 340/6BBL 4M
1968 Dodge Charger 383 3A
1967 Plymouth Barracuda Formula S 383 4M
1965 Plymouth Barracuda Formula S 273 4M
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Old Tele man For This Useful Post:
Ecky (12-09-2016)
Old 12-08-2016, 04:37 PM   #24 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 19,318

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
90 day: 67.58 mpg (US)

ForkenSwift - '92 Geo Metro EV
Last 3: 95.68 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 38.25 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,979
Thanked 4,684 Times in 2,343 Posts
Old Tele man, you're living up to your username today with factoids from the past. (Thanks.)
__________________
Latest mods test: 15 mods = 15% MPG improvement: A-B test, 2007 Honda Civic 1.8L, 5-speed
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown: Nissan Micra 1.6L



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2016, 06:26 PM   #25 (permalink)
home of the odd vehicles
 
rmay635703's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere in WI
Posts: 2,507

Silver - '10 Chevy Cobalt XFE
Thanks: 192
Thanked 379 Times in 287 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vman455 View Post
It is a compromise though. Two-seat cars can only carry two people, and because of this have never sold in large numbers.
Honda already demonstrated that with the original Insight, which fell far short of its sales expectations precisely because Honda misjudged the market by introducing a two-seat hybrid that fell to the four-seat Prius, which outsold it more than 10-to-1 the year it was brought to the US, and more than 148-to-1 by the time Honda finally killed the Insight. .
There was far more to the insight sales numbers and the Prius is part of it but not what you would expect.

Over the entire Insight production run you could not find a new example in any Wisconsin car dealership, and used examples took several years to arrive.
Our local Honda dealer would berate you and refuse to factory order an insight

The reality was that Toyota set a very low starting price and Honda found itself too expensive in an era of cheap gas.

Internally Honda wanted to only sell a low number of cars and was selling them mainly as engineering experiments because the market price (cough Prius) was to cheap for them to make a profit.

One of my college professors had to fly to California to get an insight because no one would order one for him (2000)

Because definite non market bs was present with the insight I'm not sure we can say it's sales figures are only because of 2 seats.
Look at the number of deposits for the elio?

Also a modern 2 door insight would benefit from modern power electronics being
1/5 the size and battery under half, could likely have 2+2 seating for adults and kids.

Ah well
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to rmay635703 For This Useful Post:
Xist (01-02-2017)
Old 12-08-2016, 07:19 PM   #26 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 175
Thanks: 0
Thanked 63 Times in 41 Posts
Direct injection is the advantage...?

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I do not believe the Prius uses Direct Injection.
If you look at say the Mazda 3 before and after direct injection it was 4MPG or similar. Not sure if this was coupled with the Variable timing or not but I do know direct injection would put the Prius in front.

Toyota news Toyota unveils advanced engines for 2017 and beyond
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DIMS For This Useful Post:
MetroMPG (12-08-2016), Xist (01-02-2017)
Old 12-08-2016, 10:48 PM   #27 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Missoula, MT
Posts: 1,126
Thanks: 75
Thanked 356 Times in 243 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
EPA cycles are one thing, but it in the real world it wouldn't touch a gen 1 Insight in lean burn cruise.
Which doubt would pass current emissions requirements or Hyundai would use it. Blame the EPA not Hyundai for that. Still, beating it in the EPA test means the average driver will get better mileage with the Hyundai, especially considering it is unlikely the Insight is still operating 100%.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2016, 10:54 PM   #28 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Missoula, MT
Posts: 1,126
Thanks: 75
Thanked 356 Times in 243 Posts
There is a possible reason NOT to use direct injection. It looks like under the 2017 tier 3 emissions standards (which phase in from 2017-2025) they may be needing exhaust particulate filters, and then those will need a regen mode just like on diesels. In the end you end up with no MPG benefit and a huge cost addition.
http://sam.abuelsamid.com/2015/09/01...issions-rules/
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Hersbird For This Useful Post:
Xist (01-02-2017)
Old 12-08-2016, 11:06 PM   #29 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
LittleBlackDuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: The Land Downunder
Posts: 228

CT - '11 Lexus CT200h Luxury
Thanks: 26
Thanked 78 Times in 59 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
EPA cycles are one thing, but it in the real world it wouldn't touch a gen 1 Insight in lean burn cruise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
Which doubt would pass current emissions requirements or Hyundai would use it. Blame the EPA not Hyundai for that. Still, beating it in the EPA test means the average driver will get better mileage with the Hyundai, especially considering it is unlikely the Insight is still operating 100%.
And that is why there is so much smog! All these Insight punters need to let go and realise that saving 20 drops of fuel is not worth killing the atmosphere.

NOx and diesel particulates will cost much more in the longer term than a small amount of extra fuel.

Simon
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2016, 03:23 AM   #30 (permalink)
Adrift in the slow lane
 
RedDevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Nieuwegein, the Netherlands
Posts: 2,039

Red Devil - '11 Honda Insight Elegance
Team Honda
90 day: 58.65 mpg (US)

It - '09 Hyundai I10 Active Cool
Team Hyundai
90 day: 31.87 mpg (US)
Thanks: 705
Thanked 791 Times in 512 Posts
Our consumer test organization 'Consumentenbond' has tested several new cars by the official testing protocol and in practice.

What they found was that more than half of the diesel powered cars go way over the limit for NOx and particulates in normal daily use. So it is not just a Volkswagen problem.
Quote:
Worst scoring is the Renault Captur dCi 90. In the [road] testcycle this engine emits 460 milligram of NOx (nitrogenoxides) per kilometer. That's over 5.5 times the limit.
Alarmingly, several gas powered cars fail the daily use emissions test too.
Especially the direct injection engines have basically the same problem as diesel engines: high NOx and particulates.
Source (Dutch): https://www.consumentenbond.nl/nieuw...escherpte-test

The Ioniq is featured in the car comparison results but gets only 3 starts out of 5 for the ecotest, whereas the Prius gets 5.
The Tesla Model S P90 D only gets 4...!!!
https://www.consumentenbond.nl/zuini...COTEST&58423=3

__________________
2011 Honda Insight + HID, LEDs, UG, partial LGB, extra brake pad return springs, neutral wheel alignment, 44/42 PSI (air), PHEV light (inop).
lifetime FE over 0.1 GigaMeter or 61 KiloMile


Last edited by RedDevil; 12-09-2016 at 03:30 AM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to RedDevil For This Useful Post:
Xist (01-02-2017)
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com