Breaking news! Chevy volt technically driven by gas engine!

[tjts1]

Originally Posted by AJI

Go on then, I'll bite: Which facts are wrong in the first article?

As for the second article, there's no "ignoring" involved. It's common sense.

If you can't tell the difference between a hybrid and an EV or an EV with an on board generator, I'm sorry. I can't help you there. At this point the Volt is little more than a smaller, heavier, less efficient Prius with a 75% price premium. And the whole 230mpg thing was down right shameful.

From GM's own web site:

This is a lie. Call it a lie by omission? Fine. Its still a lie. I hope somebody in congress has the balls to take away the $7500 tax credit.

[AJI]

Originally Posted by tjts1

If you can't tell the difference between a hybrid and an EV or an EV with an on board generator, I'm sorry. I can't help you there. At this point the Volt is little more than a Prius with 1000 lb worth of extra hardware tacked on and a 75% price premium. And the whole 230mpg thing was down right shameful.

As I suspected: You're misunderstood. Entirely.

Can a Prius run at highway speeds on battery power alone? No.
Can a Prius run for 40 miles on battery power alone? No.
Can a plug-in Prius run for 40 miles on battery power alone? No.

Starting to see a pattern?

The 230mpg thing was a bit misleading, yes, but it's theoretically possible. If you run the Volt for long enough then the gasoline engine will fire and you'll have to keep filling it up, but what if your daily (or even one way) commute is under 40 miles? You could go for weeks, and many miles on battery alone, never firing up the gas range extender.

Calculate your MPGs then and I'm quite sure you'd see 230mpg.

Like I said: Big media ado about nothing. Journos driving a Volt all day are never going to see the benefits that someone who uses the car in a normal fashion will. Best to wait for long-term tests of the car, or better yet, hang around Volt forums to see what actual customers think.

And no - I'm not a Volt fanboy. Mostly because I can't afford one, partly because I'm not really a fan of GM cars (neither in the States nor here in the UK), and partly because if I could afford any EV, it'd be the Smart Electric Drive or the upcoming Renault Twizy, since I have no need for a family-sized car. But I'm not too short-sighted not to see the benefits of the Volt, nor am I too hysterical to think that GM have been spouting lies for the last few years...

[NeilBlanchard]

A diesel electric train locomotive does use two power sources: diesel engine(s) and electric motors. It is a serial/series hybrid because only one of those drives the wheels directly. Why would they do this, I wonder? Would a transmission be better; and if so, why don't they use one?

If they electrified the trains (with overhead power), they would be even more efficient, and the regen would feed back into the system, and partially power other trains.

A Prius is a parallel/serial hybrid, because it uses either the electric motor and/or the ICE to power the wheels, and it can use the ICE to charge the battery, also.

And it turns out that the Volt, which has been claimed to be an EV, and a range-extended EV, but was always a serial/series hybrid -- actually also has a parallel mode; when driving at >70MPH in charging mode. So, it actually is a plug-in serial/parallel hybrid.

[tjts1]

Originally Posted by AJI

And no - I'm not a Volt fanboy. Mostly because I can't afford one, partly because I'm not really a fan of GM cars (neither in the States nor here in the UK), and partly because if I could afford any EV, it'd be the Smart Electric Drive or the upcoming Renault Twizy, since I have no need for a family-sized car. But I'm not too short-sighted not to see the benefits of the Volt, nor am I too hysterical to think that GM have been spouting lies for the last few years...

You probably haven't been exposed to GM's marketing and media blitz for the last 3 years calling the Volt an EV. People are upset because they've been lied to in classic GM fashion after the company was bailed out with tax payer money. The US government is still the largest shareholder this this failed enterprise. And to answer your rhetorical questions, the Prius can go 25mph+ in EV only mode and cover only a couple of miles. Less than the Volt? Sure but nobody is calling it an EV.

[nmgolfer]

See comments in Red

Originally Posted by AJI

As I suspected: You're misunderstood. Entirely.

I understand him completely

Can a Prius run at highway speeds on battery power alone? No.

Apparently the Volt can't either... gas kicks in @ 70


Can a Prius run for 40 miles on battery power alone? No.

Apparently the volt can't either real world testing indicates 30-35 mile all electric range. That range is nothing here in the west... I couldn't even go to town and back


Starting to see a pattern?

Yep... its very clear GM, and the oil companies, do not want these low profit margin vehicles to succeed

The 230mpg thing was a bit misleading, yes, agreed
snip...

The Chevy volt reeks of Rube Goldberg...

[UFO]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

A diesel electric train locomotive does use two power sources: diesel engine(s) and electric motors. It is a serial/series hybrid because only one of those drives the wheels directly. Why would they do this, I wonder? Would a transmission be better; and if so, why don't they use one?

No, it doesn't. A "diesel electric train locomotive" has ONE power source. Diesel. It cannot generate electricity without it, there is no storage mechanism. The electric motor is a robust torque converter, that is all it does.

The Volt can be plugged in for a second source of power. A Prius can be modified to accept a plug-in. A locomotive CANNOT.

[NeilBlanchard]

Where does a Prius get it's power from? Gasoline -- so by your definition, it is not a hybrid?

You are confusing power source with energy source.

[rgathright]

Originally Posted by UFO

No, it doesn't. A "diesel electric train locomotive" has ONE power source. Diesel. It cannot generate electricity without it, there is no storage mechanism. The electric motor is a robust torque converter, that is all it does.

The Volt can be plugged in for a second source of power. A Prius can be modified to accept a plug-in. A locomotive CANNOT.

The complaint is that since the Volt is not a series car. The overcomplicated drive system seems like it will be prone to failures. We all know that EV motors last longer than gasoline engines. Just wish they had given us the option to still drive our EV's long after the gas ran out.

If you want to read more about Electric locomotives, check out this excellent book on the subject: Brian Solomon - Electric Locomotives

[bennelson]

It's my understanding that the correct use of the term "hybrid", when used talking about transportation, is that the vehicle can run off a combination of more than one energy source.

By that definition, a Prius is NOT a hybrid, it's just a gas car that happens to get pretty good fuel economy by recovering some of the energy that would have otherwise gotten wasted (regen brakes) and some other clever tricks.

A PLUG-IN Prius WOULD be considered a hybrid.

However, in COMMON use, a hybrid has simply come to mean a car that can move partly under engine power, partly under electric motor power. This does, unfortunately, lead to some strange things, like the Chevy Malibu Hybrid, which gets ONE more mile per gallon than it's non-hybrid twin, by using a beefy starter motor and belt to help pull away from stop signs.

I think what really has everyone's feathers in a ruffle, is that the original design for the Volt meant that it COULD be driven on ONLY THE BATTERIES. Yes, it would be a short-range EV, but an electric car, none the less. After that, the generator would kick in, only to provide the electricity for the electric motor. Yes, it's now like a diesel/electric locomotive, but the engine still never connects mechanically to the wheels.

Those of use who are optimists, and trying to stay positive about the Volt could say that it's still an electric car, it just happens to have a generator on it. With the generator connected mechanically to the wheels, it's NOT a generator, it's just an ENGINE again, and in many ways NOT that different from a (plug-in) Prius.

There may be technical reasons why that works better (I am NOT weighing in on parallel vs series hybrids) but I think people feel that a machine where the engine physically powers the wheels VS indirectly powering them from generation of electricity are two distinctly different things.

In many people's eyes, the Volt jumps from being an EV with a range extender, to "just being another type of hybrid".

Since GM has been SOOOO promoting it as an EV, many people will feel that they are cheated/lied to/false advertising. And it doesn't help that MANY people remember the EV1, and what GM did to that.

If the Volt was simply advertised as a Plug-In Hybrid in the first place, I don't think any of this would be an issue.

(As to one of the advertising images from GM posted above. I think they do have to change that now, as it's not technically correct any more. I don't think that it was false advertising - it's just that the tech specs on the Volt changed, so any current advertising and how-it-works info needs to be updated to reflect that.)

[UFO]

Originally Posted by bennelson

It's my understanding that the correct use of the term "hybrid", when used talking about transportation, is that the vehicle can run off a combination of more than one energy source.

By that definition, a Prius is NOT a hybrid, it's just a gas car that happens to get pretty good fuel economy by recovering some of the energy that would have otherwise gotten wasted (regen brakes) and some other clever tricks.

A PLUG-IN Prius WOULD be considered a hybrid.

However, in COMMON use, a hybrid has simply come to mean a car that can move partly under engine power, partly under electric motor power. This does, unfortunately, lead to some strange things, like the Chevy Malibu Hybrid, which gets ONE more mile per gallon than it's non-hybrid twin, by using a beefy starter motor and belt to help pull away from stop signs.

I think what really has everyone's feathers in a ruffle, is that the original design for the Volt meant that it COULD be driven on ONLY THE BATTERIES. Yes, it would be a short-range EV, but an electric car, none the less. After that, the generator would kick in, only to provide the electricity for the electric motor. Yes, it's now like a diesel/electric locomotive, but the engine still never connects mechanically to the wheels.

But that is still the case. I'm glad it's in the configuration it is, because it can still run all electric, but it can also operate directly off the ICE in an efficient manner. Ultimately it's just another version of Prius with a plug-in option, but it's a proven design.