Consumers Ignorant, or Self-deceiving?

[freebeard]

They attribute the success of the 1949 'shoe-box' Ford to the deeply held affection for the Bantam-Ford-Willys GEEP.

Still waters run deep?

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Natalya

The wording to those questions is weird. I think the real reason someone gets a wrangler is because they like how jeeps look and they might be kinda interested in doing off-road stuff. It's a vehicle that has like a specific purpose that kinda puts it outside the "compact suv" segment. I don't think it's helpful to classify it as that.

I was trying a little to broaden the discussion beyond the Wrangler, but that was the vehicle I found survey information on. Mostly I'm curious why a person might say x is among the most important factors in a decision, and then make a decision that is seemingly in conflict with that value.

Agreed that lumping the Wrangler into a class of "compact SUVs" is perhaps strange. Then again, we'll always have the apples/oranges problem when dealing with things that are not identical, so some unperfect categorizing will become necessary to make comparisons.

I'd be curious what percent of Wrangler owners end up taking their vehicle off road at least once. I have nothing against those who purchased it entirely for the image and have no intention of going off road. Vanity is a valid interest just like any other, even if it isn't so important to me.

[slowmover]

“Valid”?

What character — what actions — do we associate with the vain?

Are they in any way honorable persons?

Y’all crack me up.

.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by slowmover

“Valid”?

What character — what actions — do we associate with the vain?

Are they in any way honorable persons?

Y’all crack me up.

.

Everyone has some degree of vanity. At some extreme end we'd all agree that there is such a thing as too much vanity, but then somewhere below that we have different thresholds for what constitutes an unhealthy level of vanity.

I've got no problem with someone buying a Jeep just because they think it looks cool, and they want to be associated as a Jeeper. I wouldn't derive much enjoyment from such a thing, but that doesn't mean others don't. I have an interest in powered paragliding, and it's perfectly reasonable that many people wouldn't derive enjoyment from that. Different interests is fine... and in the end, all is vanity.

[slowmover]

Being “non-judgmental”? The fools path

Vanity, is blinding.

.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by slowmover

Being “non-judgmental”? The fools path

Vanity, is blinding.

.

I'll offer my opinion if I think it would help, or if vanity is particularly egregious, but it's quite the subjective topic. I find women who don't shave their legs and pits to be less attractive than if they shave, and that's purely vain. Likewise, I maintain my hair length and very briefly style with a paste.

At what point would vanity be going too far? If I got highlights would that be too vain (I'd never be interested in that BTW)? If I carried around more muscle than necessary is that vanity? At what point does excess muscle constitute vanity?

We're talking about landscape design, and that's mostly vanity. I could let whatever grow and it would be fine.

My loose definition of excessive vanity is when happiness and identity are contingent on vain pursuits. Not a great definition considering everything is ultimately in vain.

[freebeard]

We're talking about landscape design, and that's mostly vanity. I could let whatever grow and it would be fine.

Well it is your thread.

My loose definition of excessive vanity is when happiness and identity are contingent on vain pursuits. Not a great definition considering everything is ultimately in vain.

In vain or futile?

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Well it is your thread.

In vain or futile?

I consider the thread property of EM and me a contributing member.

Vanity and futility are roughly synonymous. Something is done in vain when it's useless, and another definition is when it's futile. The most common usage is an obsession with appearance, but that's related to futility since appearance is temporary, like all things.

My philosophy adopts a paradox; that everything is in vain, yet has lasting meaning.

To varying degrees I have identified with this:

Vanity of vanities, says the Preacher,
vanity of vanities! All is vanity.
3 What does man gain by all the toil
at which he toils under the sun?
4 A generation goes, and a generation comes,
but the earth remains forever.
5 The sun rises, and the sun goes down,
and hastens to the place where it rises.
6 The wind blows to the south
and goes around to the north;
around and around goes the wind,
and on its circuits the wind returns.
7 All streams run to the sea,
but the sea is not full;
to the place where the streams flow,
there they flow again.
8 All things are full of weariness;
a man cannot utter it;
the eye is not satisfied with seeing,
nor the ear filled with hearing.
9 What has been is what will be,
and what has been done is what will be done,
and there is nothing new under the sun.
10 Is there a thing of which it is said,
“See, this is new”?
It has been already
in the ages before us.
11 There is no remembrance of former things,
nor will there be any remembrance
of later things yet to be
among those who come after.

and this:

12 I the Preacher have been king over Israel in Jerusalem. 13 And I applied my heart to seek and to search out by wisdom all that is done under heaven. It is an unhappy business that God has given to the children of man to be busy with. 14 I have seen everything that is done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and a striving after wind.[h]

15 What is crooked cannot be made straight,
and what is lacking cannot be counted.

16 I said in my heart, “I have acquired great wisdom, surpassing all who were over Jerusalem before me, and my heart has had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.” 17 And I applied my heart to know wisdom and to know madness and folly. I perceived that this also is but a striving after wind.

18 For in much wisdom is much vexation, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow.

Kind of the antithesis of "ignorance is bliss".

[freebeard]

My philosophy adopts a paradox; that everything is in vain, yet has lasting meaning.

Mahatma Gandhi — 'Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it.'

[vskid3]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I'd be curious what percent of Wrangler owners end up taking their vehicle off road at least once.

The problem with any off road question is "off road" can mean different things to different people. Some might consider well maintained dirt roads in rural areas to be off road, while others think of climbing 3ft boulders in Moab. I think most people also imagine themselves going off road far more often and in worse conditions than they actually do.