Hybrids and electric cars- health risks from EMF's??

[chuckm]

blueflame,
I just don't understand what the hazards are supposed to be. We aren't talking about ionizing radiation (like x-rays, gamma rays, beta particles), so we aren't breaking chemical bonds. At the frequencies we are talking about, it won't even cause tissue heating (like microwaves). Shucks, they penetrate skin much less than visible light. The only component that has any ability to penetrate skin is the magnetic field. Again, the earth's magnetic field is several times stronger than what you said was measured in the Insight. And given the earth's magnetic field strength, I have a hard time believing that "epidemiological studies worldwide have found that exposure above 2-3 mG in children greatly increases their chances of contracting leukemia." That just doesn't make sense. It is like stretching the butterfly analogy from chaos theory into saying that butterflies cause thunderstorms in general.

Here a few links to non-junk science references
http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/radiation/fa...hone_facts.pdf
http://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/docs/niehs-report.pdf
from the conclusion section of the article, which also names ELF EMFs as a "possible carcinogen," rather than a probable or known carcinogen:

The NIEHS agrees that the associations reported for childhood leukemia and adult chronic lymphocytic leukemia cannot be dismissed easily as random or negative findings. The lack of positive findings in animals or in mechanistic studies weakens the belief that this association is actually due to ELF-EMF, but cannot completely discount the finding. The NIEHS also agrees with the conclusion that no other cancers or non-cancer health outcomes provide sufficient evidence of a risk to warrant concern.

Rephrasing: yes there was a statistically significant difference, but it fell barely above the noise level (moments later, they label the connection as "weak;" hence, the label of possible carcinogen). Additionally, we can't find a causal mechanism or even a parallel in other animals.

[Kiwi_ME]

I see you haven't bought that Insight yet. Better snag it before I do!

[Christ]

Originally Posted by chuckm

...probably like worrying about a camel in Saudi Arabia, munching on grass near an airport runway, which happens to be contaminated with uranium dust produced by a mine 1,000 miles away, accidentally gets hooked on the landing gear of a 747, travels to your home town, walks to your house, spits in your eye and gives you cancer.

LMAO.

Keeping that one.

[blueflame]

Originally Posted by Kiwi_ME

I see you haven't bought that Insight yet. Better snag it before I do!

Its all yours!

I've decided that apart from this EMF debate, I dont like them as a car. Also the milage is high, the battery is rooted, the clutch is worn, their is no space to carry anything much in the rear, visibility to the rear is awful, ride is too soft, too many dents, and my $550NZ Peugeot 205 gets 55mpgUS and is way more fun to drive.

I may get very good economy after repairing the batteries, but I smell a 'money pit'. Small modern diesel cars are more economical.

[Ryland]

So the other day the friend of mine who works with stray voltage, EMF fields and other forms of radiation pulled out his case of meters and we sat in my Civic VX, the meter fluttered around a little but all in all was reading pretty low, so we moved over to his prius and right away the meter freaked out... few seconds later the security system turned off! turned the key on and everything was reasonably low on the meter until the on board LCD came on, turns out that the source of the EMF in the car is not from the drive train, but from the dash read out and if you are worried about that kind of radiation enough to not drive a hybrid then don't watch TV, use a computer or... the vehicle he said was worse then any other vehicle he's tested? Honda mini van, he said that the dash on that has so many electronics in it's dash for the digital speedometer and the other read outs that it's far worse then any of the hybrids, but still pretty safe to drive unless you are sensitive to that kind of thing, but most of all, avoid the use of the security system while you are sitting in the drivers seat.

[Christ]

Originally Posted by Ryland

So the other day the friend of mine who works with stray voltage, EMF fields and other forms of radiation pulled out his case of meters and we sat in my Civic VX, the meter fluttered around a little but all in all was reading pretty low, so we moved over to his prius and right away the meter freaked out... few seconds later the security system turned off! turned the key on and everything was reasonably low on the meter until the on board LCD came on, turns out that the source of the EMF in the car is not from the drive train, but from the dash read out and if you are worried about that kind of radiation enough to not drive a hybrid then don't watch TV, use a computer or... the vehicle he said was worse then any other vehicle he's tested? Honda mini van, he said that the dash on that has so many electronics in it's dash for the digital speedometer and the other read outs that it's far worse then any of the hybrids, but still pretty safe to drive unless you are sensitive to that kind of thing, but most of all, avoid the use of the security system while you are sitting in the drivers seat.

I LOL'd.

[Jammer]

Why> I dont get it... What happens? It's not going to eject the driver to the moon is it!

[RH77]

How have I missed this thread so far!

No joke, I performed my Thesis on the effect of EMF/EM-Pollution on Behavior and Health (in 1999) and came away with the notion that the correlations are much too minimal in number. The idea was "sparked" from recalling those stories of people living near high-voltage power lines and diseases associated with that proximity -- along with the theory of "Office Sickness Syndrome" making people ill, and decreasing work performance (with EM as one part of the puzzle).

There are decades of prior research on the subject (which is completely split down the middle on negative effect vs. no effect). Small bits show promise, but lack statistical power and repeatability.

There's the unfortunate case of a cold midnight watchman who was guarding a microwave tower -- it was warmer in front of the antenna, so, he set up his chair, fell asleep and was found the next morning, well, toasted. An extreme effect, but worthy of studying how close you need to be to get cooked or at least scrambled. There's also implications on the development of unborn children (again, thus far unsubstantiated).

Look up the Sanguine Project (large antenna arrays in Wisconsin communicated with US Submarines during the Cold War). During the same time, the USSR would bombard us with extremely low frequency radio waves, we would counter, and the waves "crashed" into one-another and went straight into space.

We stare at CRT computer screens, are constantly being hit with a variety of radio waves, frequencies, and intensities, put mobile phones up to our brains, and sit with laptops on some important body parts. The frequency of older fluorescent bulbs blink at a rate that has shown to effect eye fatigue and personality. On a side note, I do know that 2.4GHz at a sufficient intensity will literally melt your eyeballs.

The biggest emission may be household wiring. 60-hertz is constantly buzzing around every room. You would have to build a Faraday Cage to escape. So how does it effect us?

My modest experiment showed no effect on the behavior of the subjects. Regarding health, other epidemiological studies demonstrated no effect of EMP on childhood Leukemia. Then there are a few that have shown a mild effect of Extra Low Frequency waves emitting EMF causing some attention problems.

But, the data is there to support a very high degree of safety in today's average level of emission.

So...

Why would hybrid drivetrains emit more than what we already have in society? Not much, IMHO.

RH77

[greasemonkee]

Although different from DC/low frequency emissions, here is a sad story:


Our Story

[blueflame]

I'm sure there are plenty more stories of suffering from EMF radiation.

I've ditched the Gen 1 Insight option. MAINLY because there is nowhere to put surfboards in or on the car in an appropriate way, or its inability to carry a lawnmower or washing machine. Also monetary and time commitments to a car that needs $$batteries$$, much time and relearning.

Every year I find lots of stuff in my surf travels that nets some extra cash. If, I was unable to throw it in the back, I would be missing out on money. (2 dishwashers last month-$600) Even my ultra tiny Citroen AX could fit 2 dishwashers at once...

My personal summation of the EMF debate is concern for intensity and proximity. For your average joe like me, too many burgers or coffee seems to be more of a concern.

I finished a book 'Mutants' http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&sou...C_VqBYKTSVaqZw

one of the best books I've read for awhile, highly readable, dealing with genetic variation. May interest some 'modders' out there.

So, just as I wouldnt run a car in a closed garage, work alongside a freeway for long periods of time, work on a CRT assembly line at final test, climb cell towers to clean transmitters and the like....I will still continue to enjoy cities, use a computer/cellphone and use most potentially harmful modern conveniences, including ingesting high levels of acrylamide.

However, imagine what it is like for those in the industrialized world who never get away to the country to recharge, live alongside busy vehicle carriageways, work in toxic industrial environments and dont have the finances or education to eat well and remedy the situations imposed on them from birth by a society that cares squat.

When I studied longevity a few years back, the Azerbaijan, Hunza, Okinawan and Vilcabamba where some individuals sometimes reach 130years, all have highly mineralized food and water, clean air, good diets and ...

Who knows what we will learn in the future, or forget in the future...