Hybrids and electric cars- health risks from EMF's?? - Fuel Economy, Hypermiling, EcoModding News and Forum

blueflame · 09-22-2009, 06:21 PM

I found this letter on the net from a US consumer affairs site.

Can anyone confirm or deny these claims?

I was just getting interested in buying a hybrid and now am worried about electromagnetic pollution.

Thanks ( I used to go along to the NZ Society for Radionics and Dowsing, so I take these things fairly seriously.

I am writing to you because of a serious problem I have with my new hybrid car, the Honda Insight. I have measured with a Trifield meter, and we have found that the electromagnetic field (EMF) impacting the driver and passenger are dangerously high. Everything we found has been backed up by professional measurement with much more sophisticated instrumentation.

The driver is receiving up to 135 milligauss (mG) at the hip, and up to 100 mG in the upper torso and head area. For comparison, my VW van measures between 1 and 2 mG. The technicians who measured the EMF advised me not to drive my Honda until this problem is fixed.

To put this into perspective, the Liburdy and Colleagues Study in 1993 found that just 12 mG stimulates the growth of estrogen-sensitive breast cancer cells. Epidemiological studies have found an increased risk of breast cancer among both men and women exposed to high electromagnetic fields at work. A study by the Natinoal Institute of Environmental Health Sciences (NIEHS) called "assessment of health effects from exposure to power line frequency electric and magnetic fields" confirms the dangers of high EMF.

In addition, epidemiological studies worldwide have found that exposure above 2-3 mG in children greatly increases their chances of contracting leukemia. This is a statistically valid number. There have been numerous other studies on this problem, many of them appearing in either the American Journal of Epidemiology or the International Journal of Epidemiology within the last ten years.

The Institute for Bau-biology and Ecology has set standards for EMF, and the Insight's readings are up to 100 times higher than the minimum reading considered "strong" in their tables.

I have always liked Hondas, and Honda's commitment to being first in environmental thinking among the automakers here and abroad. Our family has had four of their cars: a Honda 600 back in the '70s, an Accord, a Civic, and now the Insight. I feel that Honda had always tried to be environmentally concious, but they dropped the ball in a big way on this vehicle. I know that they are aware of EMF, since they must consider EMF compatibility just to insure that automobile systems do not electrically interfere with one another. But it is clear that they are not considering the effects of EMF on the driver and passengers.

The kicker for me is a line in the Honda Insight Service Advisor and Parts Counterperson Guide, and I quote: "Anyone with a heart pacemaker, ICD, or other medical implant that can be affected by strong magnetic fields should stay away from the rotor." The driver is not far from that rotor, and that is truly frightening.

One person I talked to offered me a possible aftermarket solution with involves layering mu-metal, an iron/nickel shielding material on the floor and rear deck to minimize the EMF in my Insight. But they don't know how much the EMF will be minimized, if it will be safe to drive, or if I should gamble thousands of dollars to find out. We feel that the EMF problem could have been handled during production of the car by using source identification, field cancellation, and shielding. As it is now, the car sits in my garage awaiting a solution. I faxed Honda my concerns in December, and they have not responded.

A follow-up from Brian (5/17/04):

I sold the Honda Insight back to the dealer six months after purchase, at a loss of about $7,000. Honda finally did respond, and told me the EMF was "within the curve" of some other automobiles (so vague, and without any example, that it was basically a non-reply), and that the car was fine. I asked if they would test my car at their labs in southern California, and they said no. I now make it a habit of talking to owners of Honda Insights whenever I can, and at least one owner sold the car within a few weeks.

In the last year, I've had inquiries from officials in positions to order government vehicles. I forwarded all my info to them, and the results are still pending.

After I sold the Insight, I almost bought a used Honda minivan. Just before purchase, I checked the EMF, and although the driver seat was fine, the front passenger seat (where the kids sit in this soccer-mom vehicle) had very high EMF. I still think that Honda is a pace-setter in MPG and safety, but they have not addressed the EMF problem. My feeling on this is that EMF will eventually rival tobacco and asbestos as health issues.

Incidentally, the Prius I measured was fine in the front seats, but the left rear seat had similar readings to the Insight.

Read more: Consumer complaints about Honda Insight

NiHaoMike · 09-22-2009, 06:31 PM

I don't think it's as much of an issue as stated. Even Tesla coil experimenters aren't dying at alarming rates.

greasemonkee · 09-22-2009, 08:01 PM

That does seem a bit high to want to put yourself in an environment like that. Is it possible to further shield the source of EMF? I've seen a few warnings about this in regard to electric vehicles in general. Depending on how health conscious you are, I might consider some metering devices that will accurately detect and measure magnetic fields. Personally, I refuse to put a cell phone up to my head because there is enough evidence to date to prove that microwave emissions (especially carrying data) is immediately damaging and has a cumulative risk factor.

This is all about raising your risk for health problems in the long run, but I sure the heck wouldn't get that thing if I had any kids to carry around, that would only add to the 1,000,000 times the electropollution we see that our great grandparents didn't. Definitely not good for a developing child.

roflwaffle · 09-22-2009, 08:26 PM

Radio waves, they're everywhere, run!

RobertSmalls · 09-22-2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:

The kicker for me is a line in the Honda Insight Service Advisor and Parts Counterperson Guide, and I quote: "Anyone with a heart pacemaker, ICD, or other medical implant that can be affected by strong magnetic fields should stay away from the rotor." The driver is not far from that rotor, and that is truly frightening.

This guy is totally overreacting. That line from the repair manual applies when the transmission is separated from the engine, and the IMA motor's permanent magnet rotor is exposed. There are no warnings in the engine bay, because EMF levels in the engine bay are normal.

The big EMF-generating part of the hybrid is just an electric motor. There's nothing too exotic or scary about that.

The fact that the Odyssey has similar levels of EMF says something: igntion systems, in car entertainment, radio broadcasts, and your cell phone bathe you in EMF at a level that is probably acceptable, despite the fact that isolated evidence suggests otherwise.

Christ · 09-23-2009, 12:00 AM

Hm. I leave my cell phone on all night despite studies that suggest that leaving your cell phone on predisposes you to lack of sleep... seems to me that the only people losing sleep are those who think too far into things like this.

Meanwhile, If I were that guy, I'd have kept getting 60+ MPG in my Insight.

EDIT - I underwent a medical study in an attempt to diagnose my insomnia which required that I leave my phone, any source of noise, and all other stimulants and EMF emitting devices powered off and not within 20 feet of me for 2 hours before I went to bed. It did nothing, I still didn't/don't sleep much.

blueflame · 09-23-2009, 03:27 AM

I suppose a view to cumulative effects is less sensational and more balanced here. Radio waves are everywhere..... EMF's are everywhere

Ideally I would like to remove an emotional reaction to this thread ie hybrid owners dismissing and non hybrid greenie owners supporting, both to further their own personal agenda's or views. A bit like having a sports team and being one eyed about it all.

I remember one tutor at the radionics society said 'alternators had very high EMF's and vans with engines beside the front passengers were worse' as distance to people was 10 times closer, making the field strength acting on the passengers hundreds of times stronger.

Insurance companies have 'cancer maps' as people are more likely to develop cancer living in certain localities. Could just be the water or a combination of easily explainable combinations. However, earth radiation or geopathic stress is seldom considered by most people. Cacti are supposedly good at cleaning enviroments with EMF's. Walking barefoot is said to earth out static electricity that shoes build up.

Cats like radiation ie will sleep on a TV or high radiation spot whereas dogs avoid these locations.

One thing for sure is that if any health risks are present, those with a financial interest or purchase commitment would be the most likely to downplay any relevance. And those who are health conscious and 'spiritual' are more likely to overemphasize relevance.

I wonder if the same guy who contacted Honda re his Insight sits in front of a computer all day...

Cell phone towers are popping up everywhere around here, maybe they decided we can handle it, cause it seems to be a huge growth area....

Someone is selling trifield meters here in NZ. I guess the proof is in the pudding and walking around with a trifield meter(or similar), measuring cell phones, towers, TV's, electric blankets and cars etc would open up an invisible universe. Much like a dog 'seeing' with his nose, a whole new perception opens up. Ghost busters use them for detecting paranormal phenomenon.

Its like I want to dismiss all this new age gaga, and go and buy the goddam prius! But....

Ryland · 09-23-2009, 04:07 PM

I have two friends who both do EMF consulting, one has a Prius, the other has an Insight, neither has made any weird mods to their cars because of EMF that I know of and they are both the kind of people who would if there was an issue.
I also had my cell phone tested and found that it's only an issue while I'm using it, not while it's in my pocket, a blue tooth ear piece is 50 times worse then holding the cell phone up to my head.
one of these friends who do this consulting is going to be visiting in two weeks, I'll as him about Hybrid EMF issues at that time.