Lighter pickups coming soon- but geez have they gotten fat!

[The Rooster]

Damn, this post started a new page, quick go back and read the last post on page 6 first!

Originally Posted by jamesqf

I don't think egomania is quite the reason. Indeed, I'll argue that it's just the opposite, insecurity. The average American, and particularly the average American male, is pretty darned insecure about his place in the world, and as a consequence he buys the big truck and suchlike to hide his insecurity behind. Whereas the truly egotistical (like me!) are secure in the knowledge of our superiority, and so don't need artificial props :-)

I couldn't agree more.

The fragile male ego is exasperated in American culture in inumerable ways. The pressure to provide for a family, the pressure to succeed at work, the pressure to appear masculine, the pressure to attract an young, healthy, beautiful woman. All things pertaining to vanity are multiplied by commercialism from balding treatments, weight fixations, and self percieved erectile deficiencies from watching too much porn...to list just a few.

It's so out of hand that it dosen't make any sense half the time. In the summer I ride a Harley Sportster and all I ever hear from other Harley guys is how it's a chick's bike. Meanwhile, they are riding on their full dressers with air suspension, radios, heated hand grips, full fairings and windscreens...they may as well be cars.

But I'm the girl because why? My bike is smaller. Ignore the fact that it has a harsher ride, is less comfortable and takes a certain amount of physical exertion and requires a mild physical beating to ride. But I guess I'm a girly man. I guess I'm also a wimp because I throw a sleeping bag on the luggage rack and camp right off the bike, under the stars with no camp fire or heat, as opposed to dragging the 26' travel trailer with bed/toilet/shower/stove to a pay to stay camp site. Why not just stay home? This is why I just laugh and avoid riding with others.

There's a certain stigma among the hyper-testosterone-enrichment-self-esteem-deficient crowd that Sportsters, like small cars, are for chicks, and they wouldn't be "CAUGHT DEAD" in or on one. See, it's all about how other's see them. Massive insecurity issue.

It's been my observation that Harley Riders, as much as truck owners (often they are one in the same) are the most insecure people I've met. This is why people are so often quick to get angry or even violent if they feel slighted or disrespected. It's also why they tend to hang out in groups, strengh in numbers, helps mask the underlying insecurities. How about having enough self confidence to not care what other people say about you? Or how about not behaving in a way that invites said slights or disrespect?

But really, insecurity is a normal part of being a man, the problem is that insecurity is preyed upon, and wisely so, by companies looking to make money. First you make the man insecure, tell him hes poor, or bald, or fat, or has a small one, then you offer the solution, Cridit Card/Car Loan/Home Equity Loan, Rogaine, gym membership and Enzyte.

First step in education, turn off the damn TV.

[Frank Lee]

You and James are right re: the psych. I think more often than not that outward displays of "egomania" are the result of compensating for insecurity, not true superiority complexes.

It's not just males though! U.S. women drive (PUN!) the majority of new vehicle purchases, and that would be SUVs and Pickups. Women, moreso than men, place high importance on sitting up high, surrounding the passenger compartment with sheer bulk, and conforming to the herd.

Both genders in the U.S. seem to relish bringing a cannon to a knife fight though.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Both genders in the U.S. seem to relish bringing a cannon to a knife fight though.

Well, nothing wrong with that. The problem's when you bring an unloaded cannon, and expect it to scare the guy with the knife :-)

[The Rooster]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

You and James are right re: the psych. I think more often than not that outward displays of "egomania" are the result of compensating for insecurity, not true superiority complexes.

It's not just males though! U.S. women drive (PUN!) the majority of new vehicle purchases, and that would be SUVs and Pickups. Women, moreso than men, place high importance on sitting up high, surrounding the passenger compartment with sheer bulk, and conforming to the herd.

Both genders in the U.S. seem to relish bringing a cannon to a knife fight though.

Excellent point about the female influence as well.

But to avoid going any further off track, let me take a second to address another issue more to the heard of this thread. Lighter trucks, more expensive materials, EPA influence...etc.

I read a lot of posts about wanting small trucks, but buying a car is more of an emotional decision that most people think. I sold cars many years ago and the biggest concern as a salesmen was getting someone to fall in love with something...ANYTHING to sell them. Most often, these are the vehicles that pay the most homage to whatever emotional shortcomings the buyer has.

Usually that means the biggest truck, or most opulent car they can fit into thier monthly checkbooks.

So here's the issue. People say they want...from an intelectual standpoint, a small, utilitarian, efficient, inexpensive truck but when you get to the lot and that Colorado is parked next to a big, beautiful, Chevy Silverado with baby seal skin seats, the emotional brain gets involved, and usually wins. The problem is simple brain arcitecture. The logical part of our brain, or the cerebral cortex is built over the top of the more primitive, yet more dominant limbic system, which is in charge of our emotions.

So when we decide what we need, or think we want, it's parts of the cerebral cortex talking, but when it comes down to what feels right, the limbic system, that really controls the outcome of most of our actions, save for a handful of people that have learned how to tame their emotions. The people that have, usually don't end up in 4000 square foot homes with an interest only mortgage with leased SUV's in the driveway on a $45k per year sallary.

So when we talk about education, none of it will matter unless people understand their emotions, how they work, and how they can adversely affect your decision making processes. Emotions are great for making snap decisions. "I feel a burning sensation, oh crap I'm on fire, I'm gonna go jump into the river"...If you had to actually think that all out, you might die, but your emotions allow you to react instantly. Good in emergency's, not so good when it's going to hamper you financially for several years, while you reinforce misconceptions about yourself, mask all your emotional shortcomings and come no closer to fixing the problem...which is the squishy thing behind the sunglasses.

People need to be educated about themselves, something never addressed in the education system.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by tim3058

Absolutely they don't want one - If people are throwing down $30k-40k on a 14mpg big rig, they just told the automaker thats what they want, not 30mpg. If they buy a 2wd stick shift 4 cyl Ranger or Colorado, they send a different message. If they truly wanted better fuel mileage, the automakers would provide it - its free market (or should be). In a marketplace where the Gov't isn't subsidizing failed automakers, they have no choice but to make their customers happy or go under.

Yes but relatively large rigs with the right combination can do much better than 20mpg.

1. Aero improves FE on all vehicles
2. CdA <- Note on the A, something that can haul a fair amount and have a fair amount of room does not necessarily need a giant A, there are 1/2 ton kei cars in existance afterall.
3. HP, my 82 diesel suburban will have roughly the same horsepower as an older 4 banger cavaleer but with a reliable motor for towing moderate loads and a reliable stick shift 5 along with 2wd

So where can I buy a larger vehicle with a big block old iron diesel, decent payload, fair aero (at least compared to a new dodge or ford) with a stick shift and 2wd?

My vehicle is by no means small yet even in its STOCK form was managing in the mid twenties driven in a NON hypermiling fashion. It is possible its just that a vehicle like mine with a lower HP diesel motor and a stick does not exist anymore, it SHOULD at least be an option.

Now for the record what is the CDA of an 89 diesel suburban? I've often wondered because those oldies always managed moderate FE considering they are just a big brick.

Cheers
Ryan

[Frank Lee]

@Rooster: it is painfully evident that humanity runs more on emotion than logic. Sometimes it seems to me a miracle that anything actually does turn out right.

This is also why salespeople hate engineers! Engineers tend to not fall for their emo appeals quite so easily. LOL

[The Rooster]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

@Rooster: it is painfully evident that humanity runs more on emotion than logic. Sometimes it seems to me a miracle that anything actually does turn out right.

This is also why salespeople hate engineers! Engineers tend to not fall for their emo appeals quite so easily. LOL

Ha! I thought it was egineers that hated designers, and salespeople just en up hating people.

[autoteach]

I think it is people hating sales people, but I am sure it works both ways.

As for improvements, I imagine that a quick change would be to get rid of the 20 inch wheels that they have been throwing on the trucks lately.

[Clev]

Originally Posted by autoteach

I think it is people hating sales people, but I am sure it works both ways.

As for improvements, I imagine that a quick change would be to get rid of the 20 inch wheels that they have been throwing on the trucks lately.

Good point. Those of us wanting good mileage don't want them, and the posers are going to throw them away and put on 24s anyway.

[The Rooster]

Originally Posted by autoteach

I think it is people hating sales people, but I am sure it works both ways.

As for improvements, I imagine that a quick change would be to get rid of the 20 inch wheels that they have been throwing on the trucks lately.

There's a saying within the auto sales industry. "The only person on Earth who lies more than a salesman is a customer."