Project: Rebuilding an '01 Honda Insight as a nonhybrid - Page 3 - Fuel Economy, Hypermiling, EcoModding News and Forum

mtgeekman · 03-19-2009, 01:00 PM

charging the 12V battery with no IMA - Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum

I remember seeing a post of a guy who managed to get the DC-DC converter to charge the 12 volt with out a battery pack also. Can't seem to locate it at the moment.

Ryland · 03-19-2009, 05:17 PM

How about a metro xfi engine? the insight engine is over 70hp just for the gas engine part of it if I remember correctly, granted part of that is due to the variable valve timing and it being able to rev up, but even the standard metro engine that revs higher then the metro xfi engine is pretty tame and it should have no problem pulling the insight down the highway.

from what I hear the Honda Fit has the same engine mounts and spacing, you might be able to find a 1L honda fit engine, or the 1.2L and have it bolt right in.

order99 · 03-19-2009, 10:56 PM

Fabio-

Before you do anything at all to the Insight-how is it running now? I hear they're pretty efficient as is...

Also, what does your local DMV say about switching out engines? Some states are very picky about that and won't allow it, other states don't care at all, and still others will wave it through at first but then catch you during the emissions testings. And of course you may get through all that only to find the car 'uninsurable' due to the engine mods.

I'm not saying this will happen mind you-just do all your homework before making those first cuts. If the Insight is running well, a few tweaks to Cd-and Hypermiling-might get you better FE than a conversion.

I have to admit that i'm unfamiliar with the Insight design-is it a Dual-Drive hybrid with both ICE and Electric on the drivetrain, or does the ICE just keep the batteries charged while the E-motor does all the heavy lifting?

Clev · 03-20-2009, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Somewhat academic, since he can't just take out the hybrid components and leave the existing ICE.

And the answer probably depends on the driving scenario: City type driving? Likely. Flat highways? Arguably not (but the weight penalty is pretty insignificant there).

I bet the IMA even helps on the freeway. Not in steady driving perhaps, but it probably works great with Pulse and Glide for helping to accelerate during the pulse while allowing the motor to stay in lean-burn.

budomove · 03-20-2009, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clev

I bet the IMA even helps on the freeway. Not in steady driving perhaps, but it probably works great with Pulse and Glide for helping to accelerate during the pulse while allowing the motor to stay in lean-burn.

when assist kicks in, lean burn is out. IMA on the highway is only for passing and uphill. Without it the car would be almost as efficient.

PaleMelanesian · 03-20-2009, 09:32 AM

Those who get the most mileage out of their Insights have a mod that disables the IMA functions. Search for Calpod to find details. Basically, it shuts off the assist and regen with a switch. I've personally pegged the mileage gauge at 150 in one so modified. This was under test conditions, not real world. However, the owner of said Insight has seen mileage in the 140s on his commute.

This is with the battery and and everything along for the ride. I'm sure that removing the weight would help even more.

Fabio · 03-20-2009, 11:47 AM

Okay, guys if you haven't noticed we've had some very differing opinions regarding the mileage of the Insight once the heavy hybrid components are removed. Some have stated that beating 70 mpg with a light foot would be difficult using a different drive train then the one supplied, others see it as I do, not so difficult.

The post I find most intriguing was made by PaleMelanesian. Dude, if I understand what you're saying, then you must, must, for the fate of fuel efficiency in the United States, let this information be known to everyone. Well if you could elaborate a little more in this thread at least then you'd be a great help too.

Anyways I've always felt that electronic assist can only have the power to assist your vehicle when it actually is assisting it; likewise when the IMA isn't in use, it's not going to be of much help, thus it's weight can only hurt mileage at high speeds. That's why I think I have so much potential with exceeding the Insight's fuel economy, at least at highway speeds, by a large margin.

Also, I updated my post and mentioned that the car will never need to be inspected to be street legal in any of the addresses I currently intend to register the car at; so in that regard it's anything goes! Though I'm going to be ethical with emissions... keep that in mind.

jamesqf · 03-20-2009, 11:48 AM

Yes and no: The mod's known as MIMA, and you can read about it here: Is it too late? - MIMA Honda Insight Modified Integrated Motor Assist Tour De Sol It does more than just shutting off the assist & regen: it allows you to control them manually. Otherwise you have to go with whatever Honda's engineers programmed into the computer, which doesn't cope well with mountains, for instance. When I first got my Insight, it would drain the battery in the first couple of thousand feet of climbing, then put extra load on the engine to try to recharge while climbing the rest of the mountain. With MIMA I can shut off that unwanted load.

jamesqf · 03-20-2009, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabio

Anyways I've always felt that electronic assist can only have the power to assist your vehicle when it actually is assisting it; likewise when the IMA isn't in use, it's not going to be of much help, thus it's weight can only hurt mileage at high speeds.

You're not thinking it through. What you need to appreciate is that it doesn't take a lot of power to move a car at steady speed on level ground. The power's needed to accelerate (or to climb hills). This is basic to (non plug-in) hybrid design: the battery pack provides extra power for acceleration, so that the car's IC engine can be smaller and run closer to the best spot on its BSFC map.

Also, as I said before, the Insight's battery pack & power electronics just don't weigh that much - maybe a hundred pounds or so - while its engine is very light. I doubt whether you will find another engine, especially a larger one, that doesn't cancel out most of the weight that'd be saved by removing the IMA system.

Fabio · 03-20-2009, 12:01 PM

Jamesqf, thank you for the insight.

I did not realize he was referring to MIMA; this indeed is not a surefire answer to our question concerning the benefits of the IMA. However it still says something about hybrids in general.

Anyways, it really is shocking that the hybrid components are that light; my first task with this car is removing the battery back, so I'll definitely be putting you to the test with the next two or three days. That having been said I believe you, you know what you're talking about--I'm just surprised.

And you could be right about the relative difficulty of beating the car's original mileage. Maybe I'll have to look into diesel fuel and radical eco mods rather than a 'simple' civic vx engine approach. But having put +25k miles on a POS Geo Metro XFi in the last year alone, and found 60 mpg easy to obtain on a regular basis without hypermilling, I remain cocky.