Small / economy car deathwatch: we've passed "peak econobox" again

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

New prices for EVs are attractive right now. I'm taking a hard look at a new Model Y, especially since the Oregon $2,500 subsidy will have funding next month. If used prices are near new, you might as well buy new.

Hyundai is leasing the Ioniq 6 SE RWD for $249 a month for a 24 month / 12K mile lease. Deal is good through April 1st. The Eugine dealer has 2.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

What quality of the oil is lost in a 1 year interval rather than 6 month?

I've had oil analysis done for half my oil changes, and never had anything reported as deficient. The Acura has no noticeable oil loss between changes.

Well, maybe it's fine. I don't know. All I know is my Prius chugs oil like an entire fried food franchise.

Originally Posted by JSH

I was replying to your statement that she could get a new Versa for $17K.

If her budget is $10K then the budget is $10K. She just isn't' going to get a 5 year old car for that. A search for cars less than 10 years old and $5,000 to $10,000 returns 171 vehicles within 50 miles of my house.

There is even this low milage Sonic with a manual transmission.

Sorry, I didn't mean she could afford that much. I meant that the kinds of cars she's interested in cost nearly that much.


Doing a 500 mile radius with Hondas and Toyotas (her main preference) for $10,000 or less brings up a few, but none with less than 90k mi. Maybe Redpoint5's Acura is a good deal.

[Isaac Zachary]

https://www.kbb.com/car-news/wholesa...ce-cuts-ahead/

It seems like we're in a waiting game. Used car prices continue to drop.

Personally I don't see paying $7,000 or more for a car with over 100k miles as a good deal, aa there's no warranty and no guarantee that the vehicle wasn't mistreated in someway and only has a few more months left before a catastrophic failure. To me that means that if I were to get a used car at these prices then:

1. I don't want a belt driven CVT or a turbo or anything with a poor reputation.
2. If it has a hybrid or EV battery, then I need to figure into my budget on replacing that battery at some point.
3. I still want to see the insides of those cylinders. The Prius' cylinders are terribly galled up. That didn't happen overnight.

To me it's bad enough that I bought a driveway ornament Prius for $300. I'd hate to buy a $10,000 driveway ornament like a few people I've known.

What can I say? I just don't trust used cars anymore, and now they're much more expensive than I ever remember them being. And you can't work on them. And you can't hardly find a decent mechanic to work on them either. It's 3 weeks just to get a flat tire fixed around here and months to get in for other mechanic stuff.

Kind of like when you buy a 2019 Ford Escape with 90k miles for nearly $15,000 and three months later the transmission blows and it's $9,000 to fix it and it's going to take 4 months to get the part. Grreeeaaaattttt!!!

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

[*]If it has a hybrid or EV battery, then I need to figure into my budget on replacing that battery at some point.[*]I still want to see the insides of those cylinders. The Prius' cylinders are terribly galled up. That didn't happen overnight.[/list]To me it's bad enough that I bought a driveway ornament Prius for $300. I'd hate to buy a $10,000 driveway ornament like a few people I've known.

What can I say? I just don't trust used cars anymore, and now they're much more expensive than I ever remember them being.

I'm nervous about hybrid batteries too, but there are apps that can give an idea of their overall health. I expect 95% of batteries to last at least 15 years.

Regarding not knowing how a vehicle was treated or the current condition; that's why I prefer buying private party. Most people aren't going to put in the effort to clean up the oil in the engine bay that indicates a leak. Most people aren't going to top up the oil if the engine is using it. Most people aren't going to change out other fluids or otherwise cover up the wear on the vehicle. Plus, they can answer questions about the vehicle history.

You get nothing but coverup from a used car salesman, and a claim of ignorance to any questions as to the history or condition.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I'm nervous about hybrid batteries too, but there are apps that can give an idea of their overall health. I expect 95% of batteries to last at least 15 years.

Regarding not knowing how a vehicle was treated or the current condition; that's why I prefer buying private party. Most people aren't going to put in the effort to clean up the oil in the engine bay that indicates a leak. Most people aren't going to top up the oil if the engine is using it. Most people aren't going to change out other fluids or otherwise cover up the wear on the vehicle. Plus, they can answer questions about the vehicle history.

You get nothing but coverup from a used car salesman, and a claim of ignorance to any questions as to the history or condition.

I think the people you know are much different than the ones I know. I've seen plenty of cars that the check engine light was disconnected on purpose and the car sold that way, and with other McGiver antics hidden away. I've never understood why a person would buy a car between pretty-much-still-new (about 50,000 miles or 5 years max) and it's obviously needs most everything and so costs nearly free. The only cars I've bought that were more than $600 were the Nissan Leaf and Toyota Avalon, both with hardly any mileage and 3 to 5 years old. But my $250 Mazda 323 needed some work on the head and a new radiator, and lasted several years. I probably spent less than $1,000 total on the car. The same with the ol' VW diesel for $600. It ran for 7 years (140,000 miles more than the 300,000 that was on the non-working odometer) with only door handle, a couple fuel line fixes and a few CV joint replacements.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

I think the people you know are much different than the ones I know. I've seen plenty of cars that the check engine light was disconnected on purpose and the car sold that way, and with other McGiver antics hidden away.

I've never known any of the people I've bought used cars from. That said, hardly any one is savvy enough to clear a CEL, or think to pull any other tricks. Even if they are, they have no incentive because the typical buyer doesn't know what to look for, so even if you walk away from a disaster, the next sucker isn't going to know any better.

Sure, some private sellers are deceptive, but if you can't tell that from a 5min conversation with them, you've got to develop those skills.

[freebeard]

Out of curiosity, I looked at the book value of my 1971 Superbeetle.

With an engine refresh, it would be somewhere between $3875 and $9900.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Sure, some private sellers are deceptive, but if you can't tell that from a 5min conversation with them, you've got to develop those skills.

I do not like to try to interpret a person's motives. Maybe because I'm not good at it, but also because I hate it when people do it to me. If what someone says cannot be proven it may or may not be true. Not that I doubt everything, but I generally take what other people say and hope that it's true but prepare for if it isn't. If the risk is too great I don't take it, no matter how much the person seems honest.

That's why I do not like the cars that are in the 50k mile to 200k mile range and that cost some $5,000 to $15,000 or so, depending on the car and mileage. Someone can say it was garaged, that it was taken care of, was driven by grandma around the neighborhood, etc. It may even have a good CarFax report and a pre inspection didn't find anything, but eveen then I've seen too many people get a car like that and end up with a lemon. To me there are too many risks, and paying several months worth of income for something that might blow up tomorrow is too great of a risk.

I'd rather get a $100 car, put a used engine and transmission in it, pull out the dents, and drive that. That way I know what the costs are, there aren't any surprises that way, except that maybe something isn't as far gone as you had expected, which is a good kind of surprise.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

I do not like to try to interpret a person's motives. Maybe because I'm not good at it, but also because I hate it when people do it to me. If what someone says cannot be proven it may or may not be true. Not that I doubt everything, but I generally take what other people say and hope that it's true but prepare for if it isn't. If the risk is too great I don't take it, no matter how much the person seems honest.

I'm probably somewhere towards the abnormal end of "the spectrum", and as such, I'm the one that takes everything at face value and doesn't get it when a stranger is joking with me, or interprets something said in earnest as a joke.

That said, for me, it's fairly easy to tell who has an operating system of honesty, and who is deceitful. My "spectrum" nature has me asking blunt questions, which puts people on the spot unexpectedly, which reveals something about their character.

I've got an advantage that I spent a year in prison at an early age; an environment of deceit, and did a lot of observation.

Jude Judy is the best decipherer of honesty there is, which is the allure of her program. Her rapid-fire questions and "um isn't an answer" remarks aren't simply because she's an old curmudgeon; it's the method of determining honesty. Someone speaking honestly doesn't have to think about what the answer is. Deceit is way harder because you have to fabricate an alternate story and figure out if it would pass interrogation.

I'm not saying you grill someone in the tone of Judge Judy, but if you ask a series of questions with genuine interest, you'll discover the character of a person in 5 minutes.

[Piotrsko]

Not run across pathological liars yet that you know of, have you?

Pretty sure Judge Judy screens the cases for television appeal.