Small / economy car deathwatch: we've passed "peak econobox" again

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

I have a young adult friend who's looking for her first car and move out on her own. She want's something some 5 years old, without a lot of miles, no salvage title, prefers a stick shift, but also wants good fuel mileage and doesn't want to go over $10,000. But a lot of the models she's been looking at used (Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris and Nissan Versa) are all in the $15,000 and up range around here, yet a brand new Nissan Versa is $17,000.

Crazy a young woman wants a stick shift. Most men younger than me don't know how to drive one.

Maybe she'll go for my 2010 Acura TSX?

I really want to keep it, but if I'm going to be getting a minivan and an EV, I can't justify keeping it.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by Piotrsko

Bet it's the stick shift requirement. They don't make a lot anymore, perhaps 10,000 a year. Here in Reno, if I want a stick it's either a suburu ( sometimes) or special order. Can't test drive one, they aint got one.

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Crazy a young woman wants a stick shift. Most men younger than me don't know how to drive one.

I wouldn't call her crazy. That's what she drives now and has been since she started driving, but it's her parent's old car. She's also not only looking at stick shifts, but others including hybrids.

But we've all been seeing automatics, especially CVT's, dying an early life, even as early as some 80,000 miles, including some of her family members that I know.

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Maybe she'll go for my 2010 Acura TSX?

I don't think she wants a car near that age,. More like around 5 years old. But with the way prices are and her $10,000 budget she may not have much of a choice.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

I don't think she wants a car near that age,. More like around 5 years old. But with the way prices are and her $10,000 budget she may not have much of a choice.

Low mileage... around 115,000. Garage kept.

The only thing I've had to fix on the thing is a $0.50 cruise control switch. Few cars are such a joy to shift.

Anyhow, mine would probably go for around $7k.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Low mileage... around 115,000. Garage kept.

The only thing I've had to fix on the thing is a $0.50 cruise control switch. Few cars are such a joy to shift.

Anyhow, mine would probably go for around $7k.

For any used car with more than 50k miles I/we would want proof that there's been oil changes at the more often rate (probably every 6 months in this case) as well as regular brake fluid flushes and transmission oil changes and I'd want all fluids checked, the cylinders scoped and engine thoroughly leak and pressure tested (oil, compression) and oil consumption tested and if anything doesn't check out it's a no go.

But the TSX looks like it wouldn't work out. From what I'm reading it requires premium fuel and gets only 23mpg combined. For $7,000 and clear across the counntry she might as well as pay the $3,000 more and get a car like a Versa with half the mileage, 11 years newer, better fuel mileage and a manufacture certified used car waranty.

Plus she's a very legal abiding driver and does not like to drive fast. She doesn't mind the 1980's Honda Civic she's driving now. Sportiness doesn't appeal to her, but she would prefer a hatchback even though I suggested a sedan for better aerodynamics.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

I have a young adult friend who's looking for her first car and move out on her own. She want's something some 5 years old, without a lot of miles, no salvage title, prefers a stick shift, but also wants good fuel mileage and doesn't want to go over $10,000. But a lot of the models she's been looking at used (Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris and Nissan Versa) are all in the $15,000 and up range around here, yet a brand new Nissan Versa is $17,000.

Searching other cars that fit her criteria, in a 500 mile radius there are a few Mitsubishi Mirages and Ford Fiestas starting at around $8,000 and up. Or she'd have to out-of-state. There's a certified used stick shift Versa in North Carolina for $10,000. Maybe her criteria is too strict for her budget?

Hopefully prices will keep coming down.

The problem is wanting to buy a car that is 5 years old for less than $10K.

If she was willing to spend the $17,000 a new Versa would cost on a used car she could find plenty of vehicles less than $17,000 that cost a lot more new.

There are 21 Nissan Altimas that are less than $17,000 and 5 years old or newer within 50 miles of me. The Altima is 2 class sizes larger than a Versa and drives way better. I've managed 40 mpg in mixed driving with one.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by JSH

The problem is wanting to buy a car that is 5 years old for less than $10K.

If she was willing to spend the $17,000 a new Versa would cost on a used car she could find plenty of vehicles less than $17,000 that cost a lot more new.

There are 21 Nissan Altimas that are less than $17,000 and 5 years old or newer within 50 miles of me. The Altima is 2 class sizes larger than a Versa and drives way better. I've managed 40 mpg in mixed driving with one.

I thought you said that new cars were never meant for median wage workers, and now you're saying an 18-year-old who finished high school early should be able to afford that much, or did I miss something?

Maybe it's better to lower expectations, like getting a 17-year-old car for $7,000 instead?

As for Nissans, I wouldn't trust one with an automatic. Her brother had a Juke the CVT went out on, and IIRC it only had 75k miles on it.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

For any used car with more than 50k miles I/we would want proof that there's been oil changes at the more often rate (probably every 6 months in this case) as well as regular brake fluid flushes and transmission oil changes and I'd want all fluids checked, the cylinders scoped and engine thoroughly leak and pressure tested (oil, compression) and oil consumption tested and if anything doesn't check out it's a no go.

But the TSX looks like it wouldn't work out. From what I'm reading it requires premium fuel and gets only 23mpg combined.

Oil changes every 6 months is a waste for a car driven about 6k miles per year. I change the oil on all my vehicles once a year. My proof is entries into the maintenance spreadsheet saying what I did, what product was used, and how much it cost.

Other fluids I change once a decade. Oregon doesn't salt the roads so brake issues are uncommon.

I've averaged 30 MPG in the Acura using regular gasoline (which the manual specifies is fine).

She doesn't mind the 1980's Honda Civic she's driving now. Sportiness doesn't appeal to her, but she would prefer a hatchback even though I suggested a sedan for better aerodynamics.

If she's driving an '80s Honda, then requiring something less than 5 years old is silly, especially if she wants a manual. Most cars lost a manual option after about 2010.

She's right to want a hatchback because it's way more useful than a trunk, even if there is a small aero hit. The point of a vehicle isn't to get the best fuel economy, it's to perform useful tasks, which is why Aptera is going to fail.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Oil changes every 6 months is a waste for a car driven about 6k miles per year. I change the oil on all my vehicles once a year.

I disagree. By about that mileage you've seized the rings and in a couple years the cylinders are so worn it chuggs oil and fouls spark plugs and catalytic converters. I don't care if the car were driven 1 mile a year, I'd still want 6 month oil changes.

Didn't you say before that to you a 15-year-old car was too old to be worth buying?

Originally Posted by redpoint5

If she's driving an '80s Honda, then requiring something less than 5 years old is silly, especially if she wants a manual.

Ya well the Honda isn't her car, and she's moving out-of-state. I'm not sure if buying a different 1980's Honda would be a good choice with a $10,000 budget and that kind of change in circumstances.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

I disagree. By about that mileage you've seized the rings and in a couple years the cylinders are so worn it chuggs oil and fouls spark plugs and catalytic converters. I don't care if the car were driven 1 mile a year, I'd still want 6 month oil changes.

What quality of the oil is lost in a 1 year interval rather than 6 month?

I've had oil analysis done for half my oil changes, and never had anything reported as deficient. The Acura has no noticeable oil loss between changes.

My Acura has another 20 years of mostly trouble free life left. Maybe the AC will develop problems at some point.

Didn't you say before that to you a 15-year-old car was too old to be worth buying?

I don't know if I've said that. I have said I would not buy a car older than 1996 because having OBDII makes diagnosis easier. At this point in my financial and family stage, I probably wouldn't consider anything more than 5 years old. However, if I were 18 and had a $10k budget, I would for sure be looking at older cars. No way would I be driving a used Aveo if I could drive a slightly older Japanese car.

A Ford C-Max hybrid would probably be a good car.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

I thought you said that new cars were never meant for median wage workers, and now you're saying an 18-year-old who finished high school early should be able to afford that much, or did I miss something?

Maybe it's better to lower expectations, like getting a 17-year-old car for $7,000 instead?

I was replying to your statement that she could get a new Versa for $17K.

If her budget is $10K then the budget is $10K. She just isn't' going to get a 5 year old car for that. A search for cars less than 10 years old and $5,000 to $10,000 returns 171 vehicles within 50 miles of my house.

There is even this low milage Sonic with a manual transmission.