1 in 5 EV owners ditches electric, goes back to burning dead dinosaurs - California study

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by JSH

From a different source
I wouldn't read too much into the male vs female data. Only 23% of the people in the survey were female.

Non-paywall paper is here: https://escholarship.org/uc/item/11n6f4hs

Currently Only about 30% of EV drivers are women to begin with, so it is significant though maybe not in the way people think

Also during the period those studies look at even fewer BEV owners were Women (~18%) so maybe there is a point in there
(female ownership of BEVs started in 2009 as a near zero percentage and started growing in 2014)

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Considering how the SUV craze is often pointed out as a loophole to less stringent emission and fuel-efficiency regulations, while EVs are often pointed out as inherently clean, it does surprise me station-wagons don't make a comeback to benefit from the improved aerodynamics compared to SUVs while retaining roughly all the utilitarian features. Just to remind most modern SUVs are more optimized for urban and road driving than for a trail.

[redpoint5]

The part I found most interesting;

You indicated that the range of your {make and model previous PEV} was not satisfactory. How many miles of range would meet your requirements in a similarly sized and priced vehicle?”. Both those that continued PEV ownership and discontinued PEV ownership were asked this question. For BEVs the mean range is 225.7 miles, and median is 200 miles. For PHEVs mean range is 147.3 miles and median 100 miles which is far more than any PHEVs currently on the market.

Owners of PHEVs say the EV range that would meet their requirements is 147 miles. They either don't understand what a PHEV is for, or the question was as poorly formed as this conclusion.

The point of a PHEV is to nearly use the full capacity on most trips.

[Vwbeamer]

My wife leans left, being a college professor. Same thing, wants no part of an EV. It's because the range, and what happens if she forgets to plug it in.

Originally Posted by redpoint5

My completely worthless anecdotal experience is that women are less interested in EV than men. My wife wants nothing to do with them. A super liberal, eat local/organic/free range... Portland friend refused to even consider an EV for her first ever vehicle (she bought my Prius and doesn't plug it in).

Women in general are more conservative with their decision making, probably because evolutionarily their survival is more important than a man's. That translates to wanting the security of long range and plentiful fuel stations, as well as quick refuelling.

... I'm sure gender differences are entirely social constructs though, and have no basis in biology or the evolutionary process.

[Vwbeamer]

I am a former PHEV owner. I had a ford C-Max energi. I traded it in because the transmission was making a noise. It was still under warranty, but I didn't want to deal with it.

At the time I bought it, I could charge free at work and my commute was 21 miles, which fit nicely with it's 21 mile battery range. In the end, I lost free charging, and gas was 2 bucks. So I got a Subaru.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

The part I found most interesting;

Owners of PHEVs say the EV range that would meet their requirements is 147 miles. They either don't understand what a PHEV is for, or the question was as poorly formed as this conclusion.

The point of a PHEV is to nearly use the full capacity on most trips.

Yes, that is odd but not surprising. Automakers have had a very difficult time selling the idea of PHEVs and some of this goes back to Chevy's marketing the Volt as a "range-extended EV".

I'm surprised that PHEVs keep adding more and more range when to me the sweet spot is about 20-25 miles. If the engine comes on for a couple miles a day I don't care. I basically want a hybrid with strong electric assist and even with a regular hybrid gas costs are so slow I don't think twice about them.

People seem to want an EV with a back-up engine for the couple trips to grandma's a year. They want all of their day to day driving to be on electric.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by JSH

Yes, that is odd but not surprising.

People seem to want an EV with a back-up engine for the couple trips to grandma's a year. They want all of their day to day driving to be on electric.

This gets back to the original 3 PHEV concepts

1. PIP which is basically a Prius with a NIMH battery space filled with lithium and a plug, very limited plug in, didn’t even have heat but theoretically should cost the same price as a normal hybrid (but they oversold it killing their market and sales)

2. BMW I3 Rex - very small limited extender with long EV range (poor gas mpgs)

3. Chevy Volt - long EV range with moderate fuel economy and no limitations


Each has their use case, the fundamental problem is that the range extenders are all extraordinarily inefficient when they aren’t run over a long enough distance and some like the Ford are poor economy wise the whole way.

Under these circumstances the 2nd gen Toyota PIP is as close to ideal as we can get if you need to use the motor often, 2nd Gen Volt comes in 2nd and the first Gen is best used only on EV.

The Rex is great if you occasionally need emergency extension

All in all gas economy isn’t good enough on many range extended vehicles which means if you need to use it a lot you aren’t doing much better than a gasser.


Instant solution would be for the EPA to accept tuning the car to fire the cat quicker makes more pollution in short trip scenarios but only illicit means can solve a really dumb problem

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by JSH

Automakers have had a very difficult time selling the idea of PHEVs and some of this goes back to Chevy's marketing the Volt as a "range-extended EV"

I already used to oppose to such euphemism before realising it would become a PITA to point out PHEVs as a more reasonable approach for the average Joe than going full-EV.

[Hersbird]

I looked up public chargers in my town and unless I'm missing something they are silly expensive, only for Teslas, or free (well sort of, they are in a paid parking garage).

The paid ones are $.16 a minute flat rate. Granted they can supply more than my car can take but I would be a fool to charge there. It would cost about a dollar per mile.

I have a feeling the "free" ones are always taken by downtown professionals who get to the parking garage first thing in the morning. I as a downtown shopper will never be able to use them. Plus I skip the paid parking anyway and walk a whole 3-4 blocks instead.

PS of course as a PHEV I don't have to charge anywhere. As a one week ownership update we traveled a total of 160 miles and it was 100% ev all charging at home on just the 120V charger. The gas motor hasn't started once since we bought it although just 10 days of ownership.

[redpoint5]

I vowed to never utilize a public charger except as part of an adventure, or when they can supply 200 miles of range in 10 minutes or less. Of course, if a free and convenient charging opportunity was available I'd take it. I'd be one of those jerks gaming the privilege to my advantage.

The point of an EV is to accomplish the majority of local driving with it. The point of a plug-in is to simply reduce petrol consumption for those local drives while maintaining the rapid refueling capabilities on longer drives.