1 in 5 EV owners ditches electric, goes back to burning dead dinosaurs - California study

[Hersbird]

Our last minivan was (well technically still is as we have 2 minivans now) a 2011 Chrysler that has 100,000 miles on it. We have had it since 2013 when we bought it with about 23,000 on it. It has averaged about 19 mpg in that time at probably $3/gal average gas price. So $12,157 in gas. It cost $18,000 and they just offered $3500 in trade (why we still have it). I has had one oil change a year or 8 total at $50 each, needed a set of tires at $450, and one set of front brake pads which I did for $30. That's really not bad. $27,537 not counting insurance and tags over 8 years. $3442/yr.

Now the Pacifica Hybrid we just bought so far has used no gas. I don't think that will stay that way but so far (1 week) we have gone 150 miles and a .10/kw our electricity costs, that's $.45. Say the rest of the year we stay at 150 miles a week pure electric and do 7800 miles EV a year that's still only $25. That leaves and average 1900 miles we will need gas at 30 mpg and $3/gal that $190. Add the oil change at $50 and we have $265. I swear it never uses the friction brakes as it will regen up to 80kw braking which feels like me stomping on the friction brakes in the 2011 so I don't ever anticipate a brake job in my use. My plan is to keep it 3 years and then decide. I'm at $30,000 purchase. If I spend $265x3, I'll have $30,800 or so in it. Just looking at low mile 3 year old Pacifica Hybrids, it seems it will be worth at least $25,000. So that's $1933/ yr cost compared to the old van we didn't even buy new and has been mechanically flawless costing $500/yr more

We'll see, I was never convinced an EV would really work out to be less but I'm starting to wonder.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

Our last minivan was (well technically still is as we have 2 minivans now) a 2011 Chrysler that has 100,000 miles on it. We have had it since 2013 when we bought it with about 23,000 on it. It has averaged about 19 mpg in that time at probably $3/gal average gas price. So $12,157 in gas. It cost $18,000 and they just offered $3500 in trade (why we still have it). I has had one oil change a year or 8 total at $50 each, needed a set of tires at $450, and one set of front brake pads which I did for $30. That's really not bad. $27,537 not counting insurance and tags over 8 years. $3442/yr.

Now the Pacifica Hybrid we just bought so far has used no gas. I don't think that will stay that way but so far (1 week) we have gone 150 miles and a .10/kw our electricity costs, that's $.45. Say the rest of the year we stay at 150 miles a week pure electric and do 7800 miles EV a year that's still only $25. That leaves and average 1900 miles we will need gas at 30 mpg and $3/gal that $190. Add the oil change at $50 and we have $265. I swear it never uses the friction brakes as it will regen up to 80kw braking which feels like me stomping on the friction brakes in the 2011 so I don't ever anticipate a brake job in my use. My plan is to keep it 3 years and then decide. I'm at $30,000 purchase. If I spend $265x3, I'll have $30,800 or so in it. Just looking at low mile 3 year old Pacifica Hybrids, it seems it will be worth at least $25,000. So that's $1933/ yr cost compared to the old van we didn't even buy new and has been mechanically flawless costing $500/yr more

We'll see, I was never convinced an EV would really work out to be less but I'm starting to wonder.

Used car prices are up quite a lot, so I'd sell that other van on the private market and fetch top dollar.

Based on your total cost of ownership with the old van, it cost 36 cents per mile. Of course, the more you drive it, the lower the per mile cost.

Something is off with the math on electricity costs. The Pacifica gets about 2 miles per kWh. At 10 cents per kWh, that's 5 cents per mile in electricity. 150 miles would be $7.50. A year would be $390 in electricity.

My grandpa was a letter carrier, and you could tell based on how he would wait until the last second to stop on the brakes. No time for slowing down when you've got hundreds of stops to make.

I bet you can get the brakes to last the life of the vehicle.

...you've got me thinking maybe this should be our next vehicle. If I have another kid, it would make everything much easier.

[Hersbird]

I may be off on the electic rates. We are actually about .09 per kw once you take out the flat fee to have any electricity in the first place. I don't have a meter on just the car plug but going by 16kw takes me 36 miles thats 2 kw per mile or $.18/mile. So that is $1400/yr. Ok so now I am over the price per year on the used van although I also looked up 2018 Pacifica Hybrids under 40,000 miles and they are more like $30,000 not $25,000. I'm sure a dealer would give $25,000 trade allowance on one with under 30,000 miles.

Either was a 2021 Pacifica is 100% nicer than a 2011 Town and Country.

[Hersbird]

So actually it would be better to never plug the Pacifica in and just use the hybrid mode to get 30 mpg. Really the Toyota would be better then rated 35 mpg without any plug in. What saves the Chrysler is that $7500 tax rebate if you qualify. I bet actually buying a new one every year and taking the credit over and over as long as they offer it would result in the lowest cost per mile of all.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

I may be off on the electic rates. We are actually about .09 per kw once you take out the flat fee to have any electricity in the first place. I don't have a meter on just the car plug but going by 16kw takes me 36 miles thats 2 kw per mile or $.18/mile. So that is $1400/yr. Ok so now I am over the price per year on the used van although I also looked up 2018 Pacifica Hybrids under 40,000 miles and they are more like $30,000 not $25,000. I'm sure a dealer would give $25,000 trade allowance on one with under 30,000 miles.

Either was a 2021 Pacifica is 100% nicer than a 2011 Town and Country.

You reversed the math on that last step.

36 miles / 16 kWh = ~2 miles per kWh

$0.10 per kWh / 2 miles per kWh = $0.05 per mile (not $0.18).

I'm keeping the 10 cents because charging is only about 90% efficient.

As long as you're only charging with 120v, you can monitor consumption with this cheap monitor. Good to have anyhow so you can check other appliances in your house.

Amazon

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

You reversed the math on that last step.

36 miles / 16 kWh = ~2 miles per kWh

$0.10 per kWh / 2 miles per kWh = $0.05 per mile (not $0.18).

I'm keeping the 10 cents because charging is only about 90% efficient.

I was just about going to say that. At 9¢ per kWh at 2 kWh per mile that's 4.5¢ per mile.

If you have electricity that's 9¢ per kWh and it's cheaper to use gasoline, you must have one extremely efficient gasoline engine and one extremely inefficient electric drive train.

Either that or you get your gasoline for free.

Here it's about 12¢ per kWh and rising.

[redpoint5]

At $3 per gallon of gasoline and 30 MPG, that's $0.10 per mile.

It's half the cost to run that van on electrons than gasoline.

...in my Prius, it was about $0.06 per mile on gasoline and $0.03 per mile on electricity. Again, half the cost.

[ksa8907]

I might get close to the 7500 tax liability but I'm not interested in spending that much on a car right now. Who knows, maybe this high mileage chrysler will change my mind about used cars...

[Hersbird]

I reversed some of that math on both posts. Thanks for the corrections. I was trying to quickly do it as I typed it on my phone while delivering mail like your madman uncle lol.

After I made that 2nd mistake I was bumming about the results. When I got an actual break i did it again and got what you said above.

Maybe next time I will check my math before turning my paper in, but why change now 51 years later?

[freebeard]

I must not have been following before, because I'm still not confused.

All I know is if I were to charge up here, then recharge right across the river; then the cost per mile would double.