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Old 05-16-2019, 02:08 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Nope, not good enough. JHS thought to allow no deductions is perfect. I don't want to "do my taxes" ever again. Tax my income if you must, but I don't want to muck about with owing or receiving money back.

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Old 05-16-2019, 10:55 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
On the Federal level I think we should:
  1. Eliminate Income tax deductions, rebates, and credits. All of them
  2. Tax all income the same.
  3. Drop corporate income taxes because in the end the customer pays them. Corporate earnings should be taxed when it is distributed to investors or if companies try to take the money outside of the USA.
  4. Add a Federal sales tax.

The vast majority of states have a combination of sales, property and income tax. Only 5 states do not have a general sales tax and only 7 do not have an income tax. That is pretty balanced.
Constitutionally only corporations should pay income tax.

The reason is simple, there are far fewer of them and they are much easier to tax.

AKA you would need to collect far fewer taxes at much less effort to get the same financial impact.

Forcing every poor ******* to do income tax every year on down to $3500 a year just wastes billions of dollars.

There have been many analysts that state collecting personal income tax doesn’t
Break even anyway.
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Old 05-16-2019, 11:06 AM   #43 (permalink)
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The taper isn't automatic, but a function of the corrupt tax laws. A person must carefully invest to avoid the taxes. Our tax rates as listed are progressive throughout the rate structure. It's only things like $7,500 tax credits to buy a new car that end up making things regressive.
Income tax rates for EARNED income are progressive. They are currently 10, 12, 22, 24, 32, 35 and 37%. Tax rates for capital gains are "progressive" but much lower: 0%, 15%, 20%. That is what makes our tax rates regressive at the top and Buffett's tax rate fall below his employees.

Note: I put progressive in quotes because the reality is that we have two tax systems. The bottom 95% overwhelmingly pay the higher earned income tax rates while the top 5% and especially the top 1% have their tax rate capped at 20%. That is why I have a higher effective tax rate than billionaires.

This comes down to the idea in the USA that the people that own businesses are more important than those that do the actual work. The belief extends to high earners as well. If you make $500K as a surgeon on a W2 you will pay 37% in Federal income tax. If you make $500K investing in hospital stocks you will pay 20% Federal capital gains tax.
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Old 05-16-2019, 11:47 AM   #44 (permalink)
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The simple fix is just to view capital gains as regular income at the point it's cashed out, then tax at whatever earned income rate that places a person at.

...and now I'm leaning back toward the federal sales tax. Simplicity.
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:03 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by rmay635703 View Post
Constitutionally only corporations should pay income tax.
Nope. The Constitution says that the federal courts determine what the Constitution says. There is a long line of court cases that say individuals owe income taxes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rmay635703 View Post
The reason is simple, there are far fewer of them and they are much easier to tax.

AKA you would need to collect far fewer taxes at much less effort to get the same financial impact.

Forcing every poor ******* to do income tax every year on down to $3500 a year just wastes billions of dollars.
Personal income taxes are complicated in the USA because we chose to make them that way. We choose to use the federal tax code as a tool for social engineering. We also choose to make individuals calculate the tax they owe instead of allowing the IRS to do it for use.

Most Americans don't understand that we are an outlier here. No other developed country requires individuals calculate their own taxes. They also don't tend to try to use the tax code to shape behavior.

Take EV subsidies as an example. In the US we make the buyer pay the full amount and then file a special tax form to get the credit back (if we paid enough in taxes). In other countries the subsidy is a point-of-sale discount and the dealer collects the subsidy from the government.


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There have been many analysts that state collecting personal income tax doesn’t Break even anyway.
Not a chance. Individual income taxes are the largest source of revenue. See below.
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:07 PM   #46 (permalink)
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The simple fix is just to view capital gains as regular income at the point it's cashed out, then tax at whatever earned income rate that places a person at.
Yes, that would be the simple fix - if our government wasn't controlled by the people getting the lower rate. Those people have also been successful in convincing a large segment of the US population that the the key to prosperity for all is to make the very wealthy even wealthier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
...and now I'm leaning back toward the federal sales tax. Simplicity.
Simple but regressive. An income tax can be just as simple. It is in other countries. Individual income taxes should be as simple as payroll taxes.
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Old 05-16-2019, 01:34 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Simple but regressive. An income tax can be just as simple. It is in other countries. Individual income taxes should be as simple as payroll taxes.
Perhaps regressive from what we have now, but not by the definition of regressive. It would be neutral in that sense, and as I've said, if you don't tax the first x number of dollars for certain necessary expenses such as food, housing, and healthcare, it makes the tax progressive.

I'd take an overhauled income tax over the horrid tax code we've got now though.
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Old 05-16-2019, 02:08 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Nope. The Constitution says that the federal courts determine what the Constitution says. There is a long line of court cases that say individuals owe income taxes.




Personal income taxes are complicated in the USA because we chose to make them that way. We choose to use the federal tax code as a tool for social engineering. We also choose to make individuals calculate the tax they owe instead of allowing the IRS to do it for use.

Most Americans don't understand that we are an outlier here. No other developed country requires individuals calculate their own taxes. They also don't tend to try to use the tax code to shape behavior.

Take EV subsidies as an example. In the US we make the buyer pay the full amount and then file a special tax form to get the credit back (if we paid enough in taxes). In other countries the subsidy is a point-of-sale discount and the dealer collects the subsidy from the government.




Not a chance. Individual income taxes are the largest source of revenue. See below.
Something like 90% of the IRS $2.5 billion budget is devoted to collect 5% of taxes owed, and 2.5b leaves out ancillary, indirect and cost to society

Taxing The lower 60% of the population is more or less a waste of time
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Old 05-16-2019, 02:45 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Something like 90% of the IRS $2.5 billion budget is devoted to collect 5% of taxes owed, and 2.5b leaves out ancillary, indirect and cost to society

Taxing The lower 60% of the population is more or less a waste of time
The IRS spends most of their collection efforts going after those with the most means. The lower 60% rarely get audits unless they do something that triggers an audit.

Paying taxes isn't just to boost government revenue, but also puts skin in the game. Might as well not vote if you don't pay taxes.

The IRS wouldn't collect taxes from the lower income levels if it was a net drain on their revenues. I suspect that's why there's a lower limit to who needs to file.
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Old 05-16-2019, 02:51 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
Nope. The Constitution says that the federal courts determine what the Constitution says. There is a long line of court cases that say individuals owe income taxes.




Personal income taxes are complicated in the USA because we chose to make them that way. We choose to use the federal tax code as a tool for social engineering. We also choose to make individuals calculate the tax they owe instead of allowing the IRS to do it for use.

Most Americans don't understand that we are an outlier here. No other developed country requires individuals calculate their own taxes. They also don't tend to try to use the tax code to shape behavior.

Take EV subsidies as an example. In the US we make the buyer pay the full amount and then file a special tax form to get the credit back (if we paid enough in taxes). In other countries the subsidy is a point-of-sale discount and the dealer collects the subsidy from the government.




Not a chance. Individual income taxes are the largest source of revenue. See below.

We? I had no say in that abomination.

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