12 cent federal gas tax increase coming?

[oil pan 4]

Ireland has 6 major political parties.
And they have as may problems as we do.
How do I know. I was assigned to the United States largest aircraft carrier, aka the U.K.

[Hersbird]

As long as we have been off topic... have you seen the latest US carrier with electric catapults? They have beefed up the number of turbine generators. As a long time nuke MM1 on the Carl Vinson it's cool to see a whole new power plant design after so many years of the Nimitz class.

[gone-ot]

Ahhh, but "new" ain't always better: steam, like compressed air, is far more easy to repair than cremated electrical systems, in the middle of combat! Sorry, but sometimes (often?) "Low Tech" is simply better.

[redpoint5]

I'm thrilled by this political discourse that has stayed above the ad-hominems and references to Nazis. I thank you all.

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Ireland has 6 major political parties.
And they have as may problems as we do.

Very true. The availability of options does not eliminate problems. As long as people are around, we will have problems.

While reduction of problems is an important objective of mine, the system (gov't or community) doing the problem solving needs to do so while minimizing violence to other individuals.

Example; Paul may be in desperate need of resources, but justice is not served if Peter is forced to provide those resources. The root problem is that Paul doesn't have enough, not that Peter has too much.

Although we can't eliminate problems, we can at least be mindful to reduce injustice. Future generations should not be saddled with debt and a terrible economy. Neither should they inherit a poor environment or squandered resources.

Originally Posted by Hersbird

As long as we have been off topic... have you seen the latest US carrier with electric catapults? They have beefed up the number of turbine generators. As a long time nuke MM1 on the Carl Vinson it's cool to see a whole new power plant design after so many years of the Nimitz class.

I have always wondered how long it would be until they replaced the steam system. I'm starting a new thread titled "Replace your steam catapult with Super Capacitors!"

Now they need to do something about the old cable arrest system. Catching a wire is very difficult and subject to wear and failure. Perhaps use a reverse rail gun that slows the aircraft.

The pilots will be eliminated at some point in the future anyhow. We'll probably have drones flying 24/7 in "international airspace" ready to strike anywhere at a moments notice. No need for aircraft carriers when you have a distributed network of semi-automated aircraft on patrol.

[XYZ]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I'm thrilled by this political discourse that has stayed above the ad-hominems and references to Nazis. I thank you all.

Very true. The availability of options does not eliminate problems. As long as people are around, we will have problems.

Yes, we will always have problems. That is "the human condition". But the availability of choices is the measure of freedom.

No or little choice = restricted, or little, or NO freedom to choose.

Can you have too may choices? Can you have too much freedom?

While reduction of problems is an important objective of mine, the system (gov't or community) doing the problem solving needs to do so while minimizing violence to other individuals.

You think in terms of a "SYSTEM". Reduction = restriction. You think of that as a personal "objective" "of mine". Who do you think you are to impose your will upon others? Others think that the problem will be solved by allowing individual freedom to run its course, with no intervention from you or others who feel threatened by freedom.

You apparently assume that a "system" is necessary to reduce problems and do "problem solving". You apparently also assume that individuals, if left alone WILL do "violence" to "other individuals".

That is an assumption. Some might be aggressive, but most won't. Your assumption is based upon the restriction of freedom which is what always occurs when people become frightened, want to insure their power and security, and thus vote for more RESTRICTIONS.

Example; Paul may be in desperate need of resources, but justice is not served if Peter is forced to provide those resources. The root problem is that Paul doesn't have enough, not that Peter has too much.

No, the root problem is that Peter is being robbed by others who approve of "robbing Peter to pay Paul". Given politics and voting, that WILL happen - Peter will be forced to pay for Paul.

Is that your idea of JUSTICE?

Although we can't eliminate problems, we can at least be mindful to reduce injustice.

We could always limit or eradicate ANYTHING by political force. That is hardly the measure of justice. "Justice" achieved through force is not justice. It is merely coercion enforced with the approval of a mob - of voters, thugs, politicians, whatever.

Future generations should not be saddled with debt and a terrible economy. Neither should they inherit a poor environment or squandered resources.

Too late to close the barn door...

You get to pay. You won't receive as much as you thought. Because you will be paying for the supposed political remedy imposed.

The measure of shadenfreude of which you approve is that someone will be forced to pay more than you will be forced to pay.

BTW, that is how the National Socialist Party began. The negative human emotions of envy and retribution, seen as "justice" are easily exploited.

Exploitation and restriction are two sides of the same political coin.

Live and let live.

[jamesqf]

And veering away from the political (somewhat, anyway), today's news comes up with yet another reason public transportation isn't the panacea some would like to believe it is: Reno-Area Transit Workers Vote to Authorize Strike - KTVN Channel 2 - Reno Tahoe News Weather, Video - If my car ever goes on strike, I'll just drive the pickup instead.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by XYZ

Reduction = restriction. You think of that as a personal "objective" "of mine"...

You apparently assume that a "system" is necessary to reduce problems and do "problem solving". You apparently also assume that individuals, if left alone WILL do "violence" to "other individuals".

I did not assume that, which is why I used the qualifier "mine", and not "yours".

A system is necessary for justice and freedom to prevail. Anarchy only promotes "freedom" for those with the biggest stick.

You also misread the context of my use of violence, as the context was the system doing harm to the innocent individual. Violence doesn't necessarily imply physical harm; one of the definitions is "an unjust or unwarranted exertion of force or power, as against rights". This is the definition I invoked.

No, the root problem is that Peter is being robbed by others who approve of "robbing Peter to pay Paul". Given politics and voting, that WILL happen - Peter will be forced to pay for Paul.

Root means that no further cause can be attributed to the state of being. Peter being robbed to pay Paul can never be the root problem, because he would never be robbed if Paul didn't "need" to be paid.

The beginning of both peoples problem still lies with Paul's poverty, hence the root problem.

We could always limit or eradicate ANYTHING by political force.

Clearly untrue. The flu cannot be eliminated by political force. Things would actually be much easier if political force were effective because the solution to any problem could be government intervention. As we know, government intervention often has unintended consequences and fails to achieve the objective.

The measure of shadenfreude of which you approve is that someone will be forced to pay more than you will be forced to pay.

I've never heard that word before, and I'm surprised English doesn't have an equivalent. It's an important concept, and something that isn't in the conscious thought of most people.

Knowing why I feel a certain emotion is an important first step in being able to evaluate if the feeling is reasonable. If a feeling is not reasonable, then it takes considerable willpower to deny that emotion the power it holds.

How can people be taught that beliefs are important, but also disposable when evidence contradicts the belief? Is it a teachable trait?

[Fat Charlie]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

Ahhh, but "new" ain't always better: steam, like compressed air, is far more easy to repair than cremated electrical systems, in the middle of combat! Sorry, but sometimes (often?) "Low Tech" is simply better.

Fun tangent. Like when they came out with AFATADS 20 years ago: Ft. Sill stopped teaching FDC types how to plot fires with a map and their funky ruler because they had computers now. Later, they gave the gun line GLPS to make us reliant on GPS for laying the tubes as well. Maps don't break, and any battery's advance party is going to have upwards of a dozen good compasses. But paper maps and compasses don't lead to beefy contracts (evidence of supporting the troops and sources of campaign donations).

But as far as being honest about what works goes, the federal gas tax was how Washington funded all their highway spending, and I think that's a great idea: the spending is funded by a relevant tax. Back in 08 it fell short and Washington had to borrow money to keep it going. It's kept falling short and we keep borrowing money to keep it funded. We either need to spend less on maintaining our infrastructure, keep adding to the deficit to fund ongoing multiyear projects or adjust the tax that is dedicated to paying for those projects.

I think we should admit that we've had 21 years of inflation since the tax was set and adjust it. I'm trying not to oppress anyone with big government views or anything.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by XYZ

You apparently also assume that individuals, if left alone WILL do "violence" to "other individuals".

This is not an assumption, it is an observation.

That is an assumption. Some might be aggressive, but most won't.

Except that all too often, it is not straightforward aggression that creates problems, it is oblivious stupidity, of the "Why shouldn't I empty my chamber pot in the street?" sort. There are just too many people who, if they can't see the consequences of their actions right then and there, will assume that those consequences just don't exist.

Live and let live.

Fine, when you manage to convince everyone that 'let live' is just as important as 'live' :-)

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Fat Charlie

I think we should admit that we've had 21 years of inflation since the tax was set and adjust it. I'm trying not to oppress anyone with big government views or anything.

That's the fact of the matter, and your options are the only options. The only terrible option is to add to the deficit. A combination of trimming the fat and adjusting tax for inflation sounds reasonable.

BTW, you can't oppress anyone on the internet. Oppression takes big government to be successful.