12 cent federal gas tax increase coming?

[ecoTex]

I wish I could thank you twice

[fbov]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

...I might be willing to get behind the extra tax if the gooberment could manage the ethical fortitude to set spending at no higher than revenues, and apply the extra funds to paying down the debt....

It's only been 14 years since we elected a President who campaigned on the promise to eliminate the federal budget surplus.

While the dot-com bust of 1999 had a negative effect on tax revenue, the idea that "Whoever pays taxes gets a tax break." resulted in $3.5B in deficit spending during that 8 year term (starting in 2002, as 2001 budgets were already set) plus another $4.0B in the following 3 years to try and stave off a major recession.

Next time you want to blame someone, look in the mirror, and remember Pogo's sage observation:
"We have met the enemy and he is us."

We get the government we elect, and we elected this deficit. Be careful what you ask for...

HAve fun,
Frank

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by fbov

Next time you want to blame someone, look in the mirror, and remember Pogo's sage observation:
"We have met the enemy and he is us."

We get the government we elect, and we elected this deficit. Be careful what you ask for...

Spot on.

I fear that a revolution in thinking will only come on the heels of collapse.

Politicians promise everything to everyone, and someone has to pay for it eventually. I don't foresee many successful politicians being elected to office with a campaign that promises scaling back and reforming spending on Defense, Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Insecurity.

Regarding Medicare; what about age 65 is special that demands those people have nearly completely subsidized healthcare, but not the other ages? 65 being retirement age, health is less important to the economic engine. Also, generally speaking, the older one is, the more money they have...

Source: Forbes.com

Median family net worth
Age 45 to 54: $117,900
Age 55 to 64: $179,400
Age 65 to 74: $206,700

Median value of credit card balances
Age 45 to 54: $3,500
Age 55 to 64: $2,800
Age 65 to 74: $2,200

Percentage of families with debt payments past due 60 days or more
Age 45 to 54: 13%
Age 55 to 64: 8%
Age 65 to 74: 6%

My point is not that the elderly are worthless and should be ignored; only that it makes no sense to start subsidized healthcare with those most able to afford it, with the fewest dependent children, and the least level of employment.

[gone-ot]

FWIW, the French Revolution had similar beginnings of "unrest"...a message to the ubber-rich and political mongers?

[XYZ]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Spot on.

I fear that a revolution in thinking will only come on the heels of collapse.

Politicians promise everything to everyone, and someone has to pay for it eventually. I don't foresee many successful politicians being elected to office with a campaign that promises scaling back and reforming spending on Defense, Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Insecurity.

Regarding Medicare; what about age 65 is special that demands those people have nearly completely subsidized healthcare, but not the other ages? 65 being retirement age, health is less important to the economic engine. Also, generally speaking, the older one is, the more money they have...

Source: Forbes.com

Median family net worth
Age 45 to 54: $117,900
Age 55 to 64: $179,400
Age 65 to 74: $206,700

Median value of credit card balances
Age 45 to 54: $3,500
Age 55 to 64: $2,800
Age 65 to 74: $2,200

Percentage of families with debt payments past due 60 days or more
Age 45 to 54: 13%
Age 55 to 64: 8%
Age 65 to 74: 6%

My point is not that the elderly are worthless and should be ignored; only that it makes no sense to start subsidized healthcare with those most able to afford it, with the fewest dependent children, and the least level of employment.

Just out of curiosity, would you tell us what your current age is?

[Xist]

Dad had $60,000 in personal debt at age sixty-six and paid for his own healthcare.

That healthcare was not good enough at all.

Net worth? Perhaps enough to pay his debt.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by XYZ

Just out of curiosity, would you tell us what your current age is?

My current age is 11,997 days. My approximate age is 32.

Maybe I should have a 12k day celebration! I happen to have that day off. Beers in Portland, anyone?

Originally Posted by Xist

Dad had $60,000 in personal debt at age sixty-six and paid for his own healthcare.

That healthcare was not good enough at all.

Net worth? Perhaps enough to pay his debt.

My grandpa is a retired lawyer and his household collects from 5 pensions. When I go to breakfast with him, he will often accidentally find $7,000 in his trousers and say "oh, I forgot I had put some cash in my pockets". This is not an uncommon occurrence.

Grandpa hasn't been paying into the system his entire working career like younger people have, and paid nothing for the expanded "Part D". Yet, he still gets to draw the benefits of Social Insecurity and Medicare, even though he doesn't need it, and arguably didn't pay his fair share to support it.

Anecdotes are pointless (including my own) because the opposite experience can always be found. I still maintain that most subsidies do more harm than good because they come about by lobbyists that gain support for special interests by appealing to emotion, rather than being grounded in sound reasoning. The wealthy don't need any more subsidies, the relative poor need motivation to prosper, and the few that are in true desperation need support from family, friends, and community.

The gov't should be where one goes when all else has failed, not the first or only place to solve a problem.

[Frank Lee]

...he will often accidentally find $7,000 in his trousers and say "oh, I forgot I had put some cash in my pockets".

Yeah, that happens to me a lot, too.

[user removed]

Pop is 93, retired from Civil Service at 55, last year they (parents) made easily over $100K. Pop jokes about living as long as he can to get more money from the govt so he can leave it to his survivors. At 23 he flew the first Mission by the 8th AAF over Berlin as the pilot of a B17. Everyone told him he should work for private companies when they were paying twice what a govt job paid until he retired in 1975. All of those people are dead.

His mother barely made the 40 quarter requirement for Social Security eligibility and paid 1% of her wages. She drew SS for 28 years. I calculated it once and for me to recieve the same benefit to paid in ratio I would haveto live to the age of 545 years!

Cutting anything is political suicide and sadly we have subsidized poverty and childbirth by those who are less fortunate to the point where they are now the majority and I feel like the death sprial has begun and it's going to get real ugly. Think Weimar Republic in post WW1 Germany, when inflation peaked at something like 1000 percent a week. Germany solved the problem by going back on the silver standard, while we did the reverse in 1964.

Inflation is a tax on everyone but especailly those of lesser means. Computers were supposed to relieve us of drudgery but they have made us fat, unemployed, self absorbed, and weak. Sure they have done some things that are magnificent, but they also have reduced the need for jobs. GM has 1/20th of the employees they had when I was a child. How is 1 going to pay the retirement benefits for 20?. In the 60s the federal govt raided the social security fund by writing IOUs and we all know how good their IOUs are, right, just write another larger IOU and on and on.

SS is also not allowed to legally specualte with funding, of course they have no money to invest.

regards
Mech

[NoD~]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Beers in Portland, anyone?

Horsebrass Pub is a winner.