Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-29-2019, 07:09 PM   #11 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: scotland
Posts: 1,387

The Mistress - '88 Bmw 320i Touring SE
Team m8
Last 3: 27.17 mpg (US)

Babette - '01 Renault Clio 172 Exclusive
90 day: 31.17 mpg (US)

Derv Olop - '96 VW Polo CL
90 day: 38.61 mpg (US)

The Miserly Missile - '01 Skoda Octavia Tdi Ambiente
Team m8
90 day: 48.67 mpg (US)

Puggit - '97 Peugeot 306 Dturbo
90 day: 42.8 mpg (US)

Alfalfa - '02 Alfa Romeo 156 1.8 T Spark
90 day: 27.31 mpg (US)

316 - '87 BMW 316
90 day: 31.02 mpg (US)

Vectra - '01 Vauxhall Vectra SRi
90 day: 32.14 mpg (US)

Germany Beadle - '91 Mercedes 300td (estate, N/A)
90 day: 24.68 mpg (US)

Howdi Hay two - '01 Audi A2
90 day: 46.83 mpg (US)
Thanks: 85
Thanked 75 Times in 65 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
I'm glad to see those back. They'd gone missing from the other sources.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/google_s...2450j1231916j7

Glad that helps

__________________
My Blog on cars- Fu'Gutty Cars
http://fuguttycars.wordpress.com/

US MPG for my Merc s124 300TD


---------------------------------------------------
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 03-31-2019, 04:59 PM   #12 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: scotland
Posts: 1,387

The Mistress - '88 Bmw 320i Touring SE
Team m8
Last 3: 27.17 mpg (US)

Babette - '01 Renault Clio 172 Exclusive
90 day: 31.17 mpg (US)

Derv Olop - '96 VW Polo CL
90 day: 38.61 mpg (US)

The Miserly Missile - '01 Skoda Octavia Tdi Ambiente
Team m8
90 day: 48.67 mpg (US)

Puggit - '97 Peugeot 306 Dturbo
90 day: 42.8 mpg (US)

Alfalfa - '02 Alfa Romeo 156 1.8 T Spark
90 day: 27.31 mpg (US)

316 - '87 BMW 316
90 day: 31.02 mpg (US)

Vectra - '01 Vauxhall Vectra SRi
90 day: 32.14 mpg (US)

Germany Beadle - '91 Mercedes 300td (estate, N/A)
90 day: 24.68 mpg (US)

Howdi Hay two - '01 Audi A2
90 day: 46.83 mpg (US)
Thanks: 85
Thanked 75 Times in 65 Posts
First tank in on this :

355 miles, and fill from fuel light on to full was

28.47L for 56.69MPG (imp) 47.21USmpg

not too bad, but I would be surprised if we couldn't get it better than that.

Next week will be a write off though - the Mrs is on 9am-5.30pm shifts, so wall to wall traffic.
__________________
My Blog on cars- Fu'Gutty Cars
http://fuguttycars.wordpress.com/

US MPG for my Merc s124 300TD


---------------------------------------------------
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2019, 10:49 PM   #13 (permalink)
Ol' Skooler
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Tyler, TX
Posts: 1,073

Beater Echo - '00 Toyota Echo
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.67 mpg (US)

Hondizzle - '97 Honda Civic DX
Team Honda
90 day: 46.05 mpg (US)
Thanks: 58
Thanked 166 Times in 143 Posts
Not a terrible baseline. Traffic can be your friend if played right, but not if it's off of the motorway...
__________________



'97 Honda Civic DX Coupe 5MT
'00 Echo - dead 2/17
'14 Chrysler Town + Country - the better half's car
'67 Mustang Convertible - gone 1/17
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jcp123 For This Useful Post:
320touring (04-15-2019)
Old 04-06-2019, 08:07 AM   #14 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
teoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 894
Thanks: 48
Thanked 116 Times in 98 Posts
https://youtu.be/kvPXstSn2Q8

A video by vekke. A forum member.
  Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to teoman For This Useful Post:
320touring (04-15-2019), freebeard (04-06-2019), Joggernot (04-15-2019)
Old 04-14-2019, 06:35 PM   #15 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: scotland
Posts: 1,387

The Mistress - '88 Bmw 320i Touring SE
Team m8
Last 3: 27.17 mpg (US)

Babette - '01 Renault Clio 172 Exclusive
90 day: 31.17 mpg (US)

Derv Olop - '96 VW Polo CL
90 day: 38.61 mpg (US)

The Miserly Missile - '01 Skoda Octavia Tdi Ambiente
Team m8
90 day: 48.67 mpg (US)

Puggit - '97 Peugeot 306 Dturbo
90 day: 42.8 mpg (US)

Alfalfa - '02 Alfa Romeo 156 1.8 T Spark
90 day: 27.31 mpg (US)

316 - '87 BMW 316
90 day: 31.02 mpg (US)

Vectra - '01 Vauxhall Vectra SRi
90 day: 32.14 mpg (US)

Germany Beadle - '91 Mercedes 300td (estate, N/A)
90 day: 24.68 mpg (US)

Howdi Hay two - '01 Audi A2
90 day: 46.83 mpg (US)
Thanks: 85
Thanked 75 Times in 65 Posts
Now this has been on fleet for a while, I thought I had best give some of my initial impressions of driving it (getting the keys out the Bird's hauns can be difficult)

Where to start?

In the cabin, the feel is classic early 2000s VAG - all soft touch plastic and buttons engineered for feel.

Maybe when this was new it made for a pleasant user interface - now, 18 years and 185k miles later, it's just a sea of slightly tacky (as in sticky!) Plastic, and switches where the beige has rubbed off to reveal the black switch beneath.

Whoever specced it with BIEGE cloth interior needs to re-think what a nice interior looks like.

The layout is sensible, so far, so VAG, but the equipment level is somewhat stingy.

No air-con, or even a basic On Board Computer to provide feedback to the driver. This is an odd oversight in a car built for MPG - the driver has no way of monitoring either average or instantaneous MPG. On previous VAG cars I have owned (Skoda Fabia/Octavia) there has always been an OBC. It must have been a ploy to get owners to buy into "premium" features.

The seats themselves are good - excellent support on the fronts (manual adjustment), and the rear seats have a handy feature whereby the rear can be set to two different upright positions, providing some more boot space, whilst still functioning as rear seats. They are also split 50/50, so handy that way too.

The boot itself has a mixture of advantages and problems. It has a nice, tall opening with plenty of height for loading, and with the seats in their rearmost position, it'll still happily swallow 5-6 large bags of shopping.

However, usefulness is somewhat compromised by the relatively narrow boot opening and the high load lip.

Ok, let's talk about what it is like to drive.

You sit high in the car - similar to the experience of a first Gen Mercedes A Class, bit without the engine under your feet. Luckily, the Aluminium construction minimises the impact of the tall profile, and the car doesn't carry too much weight up top. The positive side to this is that the general visibility is good by modern standards - making it easy to plan ahead and drive smoothly. The one exception to this is the rear window - its shape distorts the rear view significantly, hilariously makinging every following car look like either a hearse or something out of whacky races..

Handling is not a forte - the narrow width and short wheelbase don't really inspire the confidence to wheel it into corners like you were in an ur-quattro. However, as a small car, and especially as a tall small car the turn in and lack of roll is very engaging. If one is so minded, some entertainment can be had back roads blasting.

The ride quality is nothing to write home about either, though this is likely exacerbated by this particular example's high mileage, and 16" wheels. The suspension is not likely to be an expensive fix, unless considered in the context of the cost of the car, where even replacement stock dampers would likely be over 100%. It's not the worst ride, and there are no obvious serious suspension issues, so I shall leave well alone just now.

Unfortunately, the A2 does have an Achilles heel - and it's quite a fundamental one.

The engine.

Firstly, a qualifying statement. My frame of reference for diesel engines extends to the VAG 1.9 TDi in pre PD and PD Formats, the XUD in N/a and TD form and the old mechanical pumped n/a om603 in my 320k mile Mercedes s124.

All of the above units are generally well regarded as being effective engines, and were considered (at their respective times) as being efficient or technologically advanced.

Ergo, you'd expect the 1.4TDi in the A2 to be good, given that it is essentially a 1.9TDi PD lump with a cylinder lopped off?

Alas, you'd be wrong.

Often, small 3bangers can be a hoot to drive - especially those which emit a "half a V6" bark (Daewoo Matiz, I'm looking at you!).

Diesel does not lend itself to such feelings. Instead, upon starting, a faint hint of Lister (NOT the Storm!) Can be detected. There must be a fair bit of meat on the flywheel to try and dampen vibrations, but at just above idle you get more shoogle than an airport massage chair.

Pulling off is ok, and the engine is keen enough to rev, but there is not much grunt to write home about. Like a lot of VAG engines, all the work is done relatively low in the rev range - revving past 3500 is not really worth the effort.

But, it is a diesel, not a Clio 172, so one can't expect a sonorous conveyance, however, wafting along on a wave of torque can be fun too!

At least I hear it can. This thing makes 144lb/ft peak torque (incidentally 1lb/ft more than the om603 in my Merc..) at a lowly 2200rpm. Good says you - slap bang in the happy zone for a turbo diesel.

Well maybe someone should have intimated that to the gearbox engineers. This thing has LLLLOOOOOOONNNG gears. So long, infact, that you need to use 4th at 30mph, and it's not happy to pull below about 1500rpm if you go full throttle.

It's likely I wouldn't be so critical if I hadn't encountered how good the 1.9TDi PD is, or if the car was lower mileage, but I'm definitely not impressed. I think the engine/gearbox are the components least "Audi like" on the whole car, and I could imagine many potential buyers being put off when they were new.

All the above is my own opinion, your mileage may vary etc, and on balance, I'm still pleased by how well it goes and works for the money I have in it.

Hopefully I'll be back soon with an update - hell I may even service it!
__________________
My Blog on cars- Fu'Gutty Cars
http://fuguttycars.wordpress.com/

US MPG for my Merc s124 300TD


---------------------------------------------------
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 320touring For This Useful Post:
Ecky (04-15-2019)
Old 04-14-2019, 09:09 PM   #16 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Ecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Vermont
Posts: 3,249

Gaptooth - '00 Honda Insight
Team Honda
Gen-1 Insights
90 day: 53.48 mpg (US)

Such Fit - '07 Honda Fit Sport
90 day: 41.27 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,147
Thanked 1,267 Times in 817 Posts
Fantastic post, thank you. In many ways it sounds like the exact opposite of Honda's first gen Insight, which surprised me given how similar I had expected them to be.

The Insight, in its stock form, has:

-Hard plastic which has aged well aesthetically, but which is classic Honda in its tendency to rattle and squeak.

-The climate control was sophisticated for its day, and the fuel consumption display could arguably be said to be better than anything made since.

-There were basically no options. After 2000, even A/C was in all cars.

-The seats are lousy, obviously built for lightweight and nevermind the driver's comfort. No adjustment other than forward and back, and a limited degree of tilt.

-The rear hatch area is low, but very long, with a wide opening.

-The car sits low. Really low. You're looking at others' door handles.

-It's wide. Handling is sharp and fairly confident, but the rear springs are soft from the factory (probably to protect the electronics there) so unless you replace them the rear end tends to wallow.

-The engine is gutless down low but if revved it really comes to life. Electric assist makes up for deficiencies down low, and around town it's a pleasure to drive, easily pulling away from traffic at a light.

-For a 3 cylinder it's pretty smooth, using the electric motor rather than a heavy flywheel to prevent stalling.

-The stock exhaust is extremely quiet and once the engine is warmed up, it's almost invisible, despite virtually no sound insulation.

~

Very surprising to me, given that they're both aluminum and built for efficiency. I'd very much like to sit behind the wheel of one.

How do you like the transmission, other than the gearing?
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ecky For This Useful Post:
320touring (04-15-2019)
Old 04-15-2019, 04:52 AM   #17 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 7,105
Thanks: 0
Thanked 718 Times in 634 Posts
That was an interesting project back in the day, quite ahead of its time
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to cRiPpLe_rOoStEr For This Useful Post:
320touring (04-15-2019)
Old 04-15-2019, 11:27 AM   #18 (permalink)
Ol' Skooler
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Tyler, TX
Posts: 1,073

Beater Echo - '00 Toyota Echo
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.67 mpg (US)

Hondizzle - '97 Honda Civic DX
Team Honda
90 day: 46.05 mpg (US)
Thanks: 58
Thanked 166 Times in 143 Posts
Nice quick impressions. Sounds actually about as I had imagined the car. I feel like I'd be quite OK with it.
__________________



'97 Honda Civic DX Coupe 5MT
'00 Echo - dead 2/17
'14 Chrysler Town + Country - the better half's car
'67 Mustang Convertible - gone 1/17
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jcp123 For This Useful Post:
320touring (04-15-2019)
Old 04-15-2019, 12:36 PM   #19 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: scotland
Posts: 1,387

The Mistress - '88 Bmw 320i Touring SE
Team m8
Last 3: 27.17 mpg (US)

Babette - '01 Renault Clio 172 Exclusive
90 day: 31.17 mpg (US)

Derv Olop - '96 VW Polo CL
90 day: 38.61 mpg (US)

The Miserly Missile - '01 Skoda Octavia Tdi Ambiente
Team m8
90 day: 48.67 mpg (US)

Puggit - '97 Peugeot 306 Dturbo
90 day: 42.8 mpg (US)

Alfalfa - '02 Alfa Romeo 156 1.8 T Spark
90 day: 27.31 mpg (US)

316 - '87 BMW 316
90 day: 31.02 mpg (US)

Vectra - '01 Vauxhall Vectra SRi
90 day: 32.14 mpg (US)

Germany Beadle - '91 Mercedes 300td (estate, N/A)
90 day: 24.68 mpg (US)

Howdi Hay two - '01 Audi A2
90 day: 46.83 mpg (US)
Thanks: 85
Thanked 75 Times in 65 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecky View Post
Fantastic post, thank you.

*Stuff removed*

Very surprising to me, given that they're both aluminum and built for efficiency. I'd very much like to sit behind the wheel of one.

How do you like the transmission, other than the gearing?
Should you find yourself in Scotland, and I still have it you're welcome to try it.


They may be constructed from similar materials, and have a common ethos, but I think the approaches could hardly be more different. The Audi is an attempt to build a smaller version of existing characteristics, whereas the Insight is much more focused in its fuel saving aims - I think the VW XL1 is much closer in that respect.

The gearbox and transmission are ok, not vague, not precise, and definitely not a patch on the slick setup in my 1980 Citroen GSA..
__________________
My Blog on cars- Fu'Gutty Cars
http://fuguttycars.wordpress.com/

US MPG for my Merc s124 300TD


---------------------------------------------------
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 320touring For This Useful Post:
Ecky (04-22-2019)
Old 04-15-2019, 03:52 PM   #20 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 12,526
Thanks: 3,022
Thanked 4,066 Times in 3,228 Posts
Agreed the Insight is a poor man's XL1.

__________________
.
Sargon Of Akkad: He Just Wanted To Play Video Games
_________________
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com