2010 Green Grand Prix: Saturday May 8, Watkins Glen, NY -pics/results posted

[Christ]

Originally Posted by moTthediesel

Yeah, you're probably right --

The fuel pump operates strictly in liquid fuel, and even in the fuel/vapor zone, where our proposed "full indicator" would be working, the fuel vapor/air mix would likely not be potentially explosive. Still, it just doesn't give me a warm feeling!

For me - I'd still like to go with "cork on a stick" technology

Eh, I was just funnin' with ya. Frankly, I don't blame you at all. On my tractors, I prefer the fuel level doo-hickey that comes as part of the fuel tank cap. It's basically a cork (plastic) on a twisted stick (calibrated, even) that as the fuel level rises, turns the stick, which turns the needle in the cap. You can see your fuel level clearly, and no wiring necessary.

This probably wouldn't work for a vehicle, though.

I think for consistency in filling, the best, and probably one of the only ways, is just making sure that the fills are done the same way. Not that all the cars are filled the same way, but making sure that each car's before and after fill are as close to precision within each other as can be done reasonably.

For our particular purposes in the GGP, I don't .01 of a gallon is terribly important, but as you can see from the above calculations with the Sentra, .1 gallon can really make or break a competition like this. (30MPG difference in readings)

Really, the only other way I can think of, which involves more time and considerably more expense for the participants and organizers of the GGP, would be to weigh each vehicle pre and post. A scale sensitive enough to notice ounces would most likely be sufficient, but that's quite the scale for something as large as a car, where the "norm" is 10# increments in displays.

While the site glass method works, this, again, involves much more time to fill each car, since it would require that each filling tech meter fuel, then check, correct level, check again, correct level, etc.

Of course, we don't want the competition getting outside the realm of reality, either. We can't really have each competitor custom fitting a competition fuel tank to their vehicle to be removed and weighed before/after each run, can we?

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by blownb310

Nice job Matt!

Great sportsmanship, Mike!

[MetroMPG]

Received from Bob, not yet posted on GGP's site:

Awards: 2010 Chicago-Soft Green Grand Prix
Presented by Racecars.com

78 miles circling perimeter of Seneca Lake

Class        Driver                Vehicle            mpg (US)

1        George Hoffman     1996 Plymouth Breeze        32.9 
2        Jason Ketcham      1998 Honda Civic            39.4
2M       Will Meredith      1998 Honda Civic EX         76.0
3        Bob Schiesser      2009 Toyota Camry Hybrid    41.0
3M       Bruce Pick         1997 Honda Civic HX         52.9
4        Clark Weirda       2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid     46.6
5        Denise Liedmann    2006 Toyota Prius           57.4
9        Gary Stottler      2009 Chevy Equinox FC       67.2
10       Randy Tubbs        1999 VW New Beetle          66.2
10       Martin Deschenes   2000 VW Jetta TDi           73.2
11       Ron Hansen         2001 Honda Insight          77.7
11M      Matt Gates         2000 Honda Insight          87.6
12       C.M. Lewis         2000 Honda Insight (car with trailer)  50.7

[Daox]

Why are Will and Bruce in different classes?

[MetroMPG]

Not sure. Oh, wait: I think it's because they're categorized by EPA rating. Bruce's is an HX and Will's is the Si.

Bob also wonders....

I have an '05 Prius and on my test run around the Lake I got 59 mpg.
I was surprized nobody beat it. In other years we had Priuses that did much better. I think the wind may have been a factor last Saturday.

[tasdrouille]

The wind definately had a huge impact. It was almost perpendicular to the course all the time. Your Cd and effective frontal area goes through the roof with such a yaw angle.

[MetroMPG]

Anyone have figures from last year to compare? I think Will is the only one who ran both events in the same car.

Wow - Will actually got better fuel economy this year @ 76.0 vs. 57.2 last year.

Comparing Doc Willie's results might be more accurate, since they went by the Prius computer for both events. I don't see him in this year's results though.

[moTthediesel]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Received from Bob, not yet posted on GGP's site:

Awards: 2010 Chicago-Soft Green Grand Prix
Presented by Racecars.com

78 miles circling perimeter of Seneca Lake

Class        Driver                Vehicle            mpg (US)

1        George Hoffman     1996 Plymouth Breeze        32.9 
2        Jason Ketcham      1998 Honda Civic            39.4
2M       Will Meredith      1998 Honda Civic EX         76.0
3        Bob Schiesser      2009 Toyota Camry Hybrid    41.0
3M       Bruce Pick         1997 Honda Civic HX         52.9
4        Clark Weirda       2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid     46.6
5        Denise Liedmann    2006 Toyota Prius           57.4
9        Gary Stottler      2009 Chevy Equinox FC       67.2
10       Randy Tubbs        1999 VW New Beetle          66.2
10       Martin Deschenes   2000 VW Jetta TDi           73.2
11       Ron Hansen         2001 Honda Insight          77.7
11M      Matt Gates         2000 Honda Insight          87.6
12       C.M. Lewis         2000 Honda Insight (car with trailer)  50.7

What? We're not on there --

I have been joking that we were given an award by Bob for "best in class", but that he must have made up our own class just for us

Perhaps "Best Porsche Diesel" or maybe "Best Rear Engine"

No biggie though, we had a great time regardless, and I think our result was within a tick or two of Martin's, so I'm well pleased with that. I didn't know what to expect and I was just hoping for something over 60, so it's all good ---

I'm looking forward to doing another event like this, I wish we could do the Montreal run next month as that's only about 3 hrs from me, but I'm not able to get away from work at that time of year. Maybe we'll plan on the Albany area event in the Fall -- ?

[brucepick]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Not sure. Oh, wait: I think it's because they're categorized by EPA rating. Bruce's is an HX and Will's is the Si.

Bob also wonders....

Correct. The combined EPA for that year's 5-spd HX was 34. I thought Will's was an EX?? Either way, the 34 pushed the HX into the next bracket. But Will got better numbers than I after all.

I too think a better standardized fill would be in order. I haven't had experience with air bubbles trapped (sfaik) but outside of that, I think that slowly filling till it pools in the neck should make for a pretty standard fill. The "fill monitor" just has to record that they saw it, and the driver also. Seems pretty doable to me.

Now, gasoline expands noticeably as it warms... Oh please let's not go there. Way too many variables.

[dcb]

if you can tolerate some degree of "honor system", I would say weigh the car (or each tire individually and add them up) before and after the race, with a very precise scale, if you are looking for precision.

no fair aiming for the mud puddles