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Old 09-03-2013, 10:42 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
To me, it's busted because I've read countless comments pver the years from people explaining that the relentless march we've seen towards ~2500 lb subcompacts is "because of the safety requirements".

No. Here's a <2k lb subcompact "with all the safety requirements".
No, it is overweight by 40-100 pounds!

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Old 09-03-2013, 11:24 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Weighs about the same as the original 1976 Honda Accord. Rebuilt one for Pop when it was less than a year old (1977). He averaged 39.5 MPG driving up and down US1 in the Florida Keys (he's been retired for 37 years). One time Mom was driving when a drunk in a Cadillac came over into her lane at 50 MPH. Pop said she whipped around the drunk like a NASCAR pro, she got away with it in the Accord, but he always thought it would not have worked in the 1974 Montego land yacht.

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Old 09-04-2013, 01:51 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Did anybody notice that the auto mpg figures were higher than the stick???

I am jaded! I only get figures that low on my worst possible days!

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Old 09-04-2013, 02:15 AM   #14 (permalink)
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5-passenger 1984 Tempo would have made the list and they have trunks besides! Some Tempos had airbags and some had passive restraints. Some had diesels which could get 50 mpg. Ahhh, 30 years of "progress"- LMFAO!
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Old 09-04-2013, 10:31 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larrybuck View Post
Did anybody notice that the auto mpg figures were higher than the stick???
Yeah, but the EPA testers are trying to drive like normal people. If they were trying for high mpg, they'd be getting sued all the time by people only getting half the EPA estimate.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepdog44 View Post
Transmission type Efficiency
Manual neutral engine off.100% @MPG <----- Fun Fact.
Manual 1:1 gear ratio .......98%
CVT belt ............................88%
Automatic .........................86%

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Old 09-04-2013, 10:39 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larrybuck View Post
Did anybody notice that the auto mpg figures were higher than the stick???
It's gearing. The CVT is geared taller for top gear cruising. And the urban cycle they don't use the manual the way we would, otherwise it'd be higher.

The 5-speed would kill the CVT in sub/urban driving in the hands of an ecomodder, I'm sure. Multiple economy competitions with the Mirage 1.2 have both the CVT and 5-speed well into the 60's & cracking 70's MPG (US), with the AC on.

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Originally Posted by darcane View Post
It is impressive that the Mirage is several hundred pounds lighter than other cars similar in size (Spark, Yaris, Fiat 500). I would be interested in knowing exactly how they manage it.
Well one likely reason is minimal sound insulation. It's a chronic complaint in reviews of this car in markets where it's already on sale. (Though maybe that's part of the weight gain for the US/Canada.)
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Old 09-04-2013, 02:01 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
No. Here's a <2k lb subcompact "with all the safety requirements".
Yes, because without all those safety requirements, it could have been a sub-1500 lb car.
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Old 09-04-2013, 02:02 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I doubt it. The non-Federalized basic Mirage with steelies and without the fancy stuff that makes it a five-star car weighs 825 kg, or 1,815 lbs. Remove the airbags from that and you can maybe scratch about 15-20 lbs.

If you want a 1,500 lb car, you're looking at a (stripped-out) Hyundai Eon (which is much smaller) or a Suzuki Alto, which is smaller still, has an 800cc engine, and which has the crash survivability of a shoebox.

The Mirage is as light as can possibly be given the interior space. The good crash protection is amazing, given that it's lighter than smaller competitors like the Spark!

-

A lot of the Mirage's weight savings have to do with simplification. One of the main issues with the Mirage is the handling, and that's due, in part, to the suspension design and layout, which prioritize lightness over sophistication.

No fancy H-beam rear twist axles here... just straight torsion beams with poor lateral control. The spring perches are crude, and the surprising thing about the rear shocks is that they're actually as long as they are... the rest of the suspension is as small as possible. Worse for "enthusiasts" (such as myself), the electric steering is terrible.

The shifter is cable-operated. Probably saves them ten to fifteen pounds.

The engine rides on just two mounts. That saves another ten to fifteen. Maybe twenty if you count the missing support beam underneath.

There's virtually no crash structure ahead of the engine. It's all plastic. Saves another thirty to forty pounds, I wager.

-

I'm pleasantly surprised it didn't gain more weight in the move to Federalize. Still a fantastic lot of interior space for the size. (It's only a bit smaller than a Yaris or a Mazda2).

Last edited by niky; 09-04-2013 at 02:10 PM..
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Old 09-04-2013, 02:22 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niky View Post
Worse for "enthusiasts" (such as myself), the electric steering is terrible.
Fuse box > "Pwr. Steer." > yoink

Fixed!

(Partly kidding)
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Old 09-04-2013, 02:53 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I assume after market parts will eventually be available to address the poor suspension ect. If they aren't already?

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