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Old 09-04-2013, 02:55 PM   #21 (permalink)
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They are already. Tein makes springs and ultra racing has an array of sway bars, strut bars, etc. I haven't seen any struts yet, but its just a matter of time. I bet with a few suspension mods this car would be really fun around the corners due to the lightness and obviously stiff body (due to the great crash test ratings its getting).

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Old 09-04-2013, 07:09 PM   #22 (permalink)
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The surprise here is the Mini-cooper is 2,500lbs, has a bad Cd, and gets poor gas mileage. Why is it mini at all?
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Old 09-04-2013, 07:32 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepdog 44 View Post
The surprise here is the Mini-cooper is 2,500lbs, has a bad Cd, and gets poor gas mileage. Why is it mini at all?
There is Mini, and mini...one is a brand, one is a description...

The Cooper might be a Mini, but it's not too much of a mini at all.

(My sarcasm isn't a dig at you at all, it's at the Mini line. What, like 8 cars now all basically the same.)
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Old 09-04-2013, 09:26 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UltArc View Post
There is Mini, and mini...one is a brand, one is a description...

The Cooper might be a Mini, but it's not too much of a mini at all.

(My sarcasm isn't a dig at you at all, it's at the Mini line. What, like 8 cars now all basically the same.)
Are french fries imported from France? Have you ever heard of brand names like Real Idaho Potatoes, where "Real Idaho" is the name of the company, and they are from somewhere else?

The original Mini was small. How much smaller than the current model was the original Civic?
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:43 PM   #25 (permalink)
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The MINI is ultra-short, but it's a big, chunky car. It's wider than most subcompacts, has a complex independent rear suspension inherited from the 3-series where most economy cars have a bent beam or a pressed steel H-beam, and it has a big 1.6 liter engine and a ton of sound deadening. The crash structure up front doesn't extend all the way to the bumper, but it's heavily built compared to many other small cars.

Drive one back to back with a Fit and it feels like a chunk of solid iron, in comparison.
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:47 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xist View Post
Are french fries imported from France? Have you ever heard of brand names like Real Idaho Potatoes, where "Real Idaho" is the name of the company, and they are from somewhere else?

The original Mini was small. How much smaller than the current model was the original Civic?
I don't really understand what you mean, but here is the change from original to 2013 models for the Cooper (originally a Morris Mini) and Civic. The Civic has grown less over the years, than the Cooper.

Original Mini
Length: 3.1m
Width: 1.2m
Height: 1.4m
Curb weight: 626kg

Original Civic
Length: 3.5m
Width: 1.5m
Height:
Curb weight: 680kg

2013 Cooper
Length: 3.7m
Width:1.7m
Height: 1.4m
Curb weight: 1,090kg

2013 Civic (Coupe)
Length: 4.4m
Width: 1.5m
Height: 1.5m
Curb weight: 1,232kg

Orig 2013 Mini Increase
3.1 3.7 0.837837837837838
1.2 1.7 0.705882352941176
1.4 1.4 1
626 1090 0.574311926605505

Orig. 2013 Civic Increase
3.5 4.4 0.795454545454545
1.5 1.5 1
1.5 0
680 1232 0.551948051948052
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:48 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niky View Post
I doubt it. The non-Federalized basic Mirage with steelies and without the fancy stuff that makes it a five-star car weighs 825 kg, or 1,815 lbs. Remove the airbags from that and you can maybe scratch about 15-20 lbs.
But the airbags aren't the only weight added by safety*requirements.

And non-safety, as with bumpers to prevent cosmetic damage in low-speed collisions.
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:07 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
It busts the myth that cars are overweight "because of the all the safety equipment" (commonly heard).

It's less than 100 lbs heavier than my Firefly/Metro, yet it's got vastly better crash protection (5/5 stars Australian NCAP), with better engineering (strategic use of high tensile steel), 7 airbags, ABS, traction/stability control... (1998 Firefly/Metro: 1895 lbs. curb weight according to Edmunds).

And
it's got more creature comforts: AC/power windows/locks, etc, etc. And it's got more power (better power:weight ratio). And better fuel economy.

Automakers are talking a lot about weight reduction these past few years. We're already starting to see re-designed models weighing less than the outgoing ones.
Safety adds weight, that's not a myth. In the late 80's, we had a 5-seater car with four cylinder engine that weighed 1420 lbs with no expensive materials, the AX. The car was rated 60 mpg at 56 mph in 1986.
To what are due the 550 lbs difference if it's not due to safety and comfort ?
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Last edited by HypermilerAX; 09-05-2013 at 06:13 AM..
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Old 09-05-2013, 07:33 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UltArc View Post
I don't really understand what you mean, but here is the change from original to 2013 models for the Cooper (originally a Morris Mini) and Civic. The Civic has grown less over the years, than the Cooper.

Original Mini
Length: 3.1m
Width: 1.2m
Height: 1.4m
Curb weight: 626kg

Original Civic
Length: 3.5m
Width: 1.5m
Height:
Curb weight: 680kg

2013 Cooper
Length: 3.7m
Width:1.7m
Height: 1.4m
Curb weight: 1,090kg

2013 Civic (Coupe)
Length: 4.4m
Width: 1.5m
Height: 1.5m
Curb weight: 1,232kg

Orig 2013 Mini Increase
3.1 3.7 0.837837837837838
1.2 1.7 0.705882352941176
1.4 1.4 1
626 1090 0.574311926605505

Orig. 2013 Civic Increase
3.5 4.4 0.795454545454545
1.5 1.5 1
1.5 0
680 1232 0.551948051948052
There must be errors :
- Civic 2013 width 1.77 m rather than 1.5
- Original Mini width 1.41 m rather than 1.2

The growth is similar for both models.
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Old 09-05-2013, 07:52 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daox View Post
They are already. Tein makes springs and ultra racing has an array of sway bars, strut bars, etc. I haven't seen any struts yet, but its just a matter of time. I bet with a few suspension mods this car would be really fun around the corners due to the lightness and obviously stiff body (due to the great crash test ratings its getting).
If guys are looking for performance mods already, then there will be engine swaps for more power too. That means low mileage 1.2 liter engines with contemporary emissions abilities for sale. I have my Civic down to about 2,000 pounds curb weight. I would wonder about engine mounts and shifting rods ...

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