2018 was the last year you could buy a full-sized pickup truck with a manual transmission

[Hersbird]

Well take my father for instance, he died of throat cancer that spread to his lungs at the age of 73. As he was exposed to diesel exhaust (like everyone else on the planet) he ends up on that list of premature deaths with a NOx contribution. Pay no mind that 73 is not that premature (although I'd take even 6 months more) or the fact that he smoked a pack a day since he was 18 even right up to the end. Think about that, the research on cigarettes is far more developed yet it took over 50 years. Diesel emissions are better than ever yet there are 100+ year olds that grew up living and working their whole lives with the old dirty diesels (and old dirty cars). Also it's NOx that is blamed in the studies, not NOx from diesels, and especially not NOx just from VW cars. I would bet things like busses and trucks which have lower standards and higher numbers with more miles driven have a greater impact. Then there are all the natural causes. Finally it is something that should be regulated in the tight confines of a city, but really has no effect outside of certain specific areas like the LA valley. Tailpipe NOx from pinpoint sources here and there across the fruited plains is like peeing in the ocean.

[Piotrsko]

Afaik, nox produces brown visible smog and since most of California has valley areas that capture this brown n stinky stuff, you get this huge base wanting to remove the brown stinky component.
If you cant see the pollution, it must not really be there.

I see that as the main nox reduction requirement. Not sure how harmful it is after X many years.

First law of social science: some do, some don't, some will, some won't.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

Finally it is something that should be regulated in the tight confines of a city, but really has no effect outside of certain specific areas like the LA valley. Tailpipe NOx from pinpoint sources here and there across the fruited plains is like peeing in the ocean.

Piggybacking on this, it's up to the local environmental agencies to monitor and set thresholds for pollutants, and for government to set the regulations that meet those thresholds.

If NOx is too high in a particular city, it isn't the fault of a particular brand of vehicle, or even of diesels in general; it's the fault of those responsible for ensuring air quality meets certain standards. That might mean imposing certain disincentives to driving diesels through higher registration costs, or increasing the tax on diesel fuels, etc.

This is the reason I say VWs real crime was not playing by the same rules everyone else was. VW is not responsible to ensure air quality in every city in the world. VW is responsible to return profit to shareholders while playing by the rules. To that end, any executive that can be proven that they knew the rules were being broken should serve jail time to show that the penalty for cheating goes beyond monetary risk.

[Piotrsko]

I will postulate a wee bit tighter: VW offered to sell vehicles that met local standards no matter what those standards are. They failed to meet those standards and altered the vehicles self test function. Someone noticed and complained. Society abhors cheaters that get caught.

[redpoint5]

I'm curious how the US law is stated. Does it say the vehicle must pass the test, or does it say it must continue to operate within certain defined limits after the test? I mean, breaking the spirit of the law is still breaking the law, but I have to admit my mind is such that I like to explore the flaws in any rule.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I'm curious how the US law is stated. Does it say the vehicle must pass the test, or does it say it must continue to operate within certain defined limits after the test? I mean, breaking the spirit of the law is still breaking the law, but I have to admit my mind is such that I like to explore the flaws in any rule.

US law says you have to notify the EPA of any situations where the ECU will allow the vehicle will operate outside of the allowed emission range.

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Funny that manual transmissions are referred to as "standard". "You drive a standard, or automatic?" ... Will we ever refer to automatic transmissions as "regular"?

Somewhat related:

Some dudes on other forums who have only ever driven automatics will argue that they drive "manual" because their car has flappy paddles or a "manual mode" shift gate.

Another irony: the number of automatic transmission shifters that incorporate a shift boot to make them look like manual gear selectors. There's even an aftermarket for converting/hiding PRNDL shift gates to look like manual shifters.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Another irony: the number of automatic transmission shifters that incorporate a shift boot to make them look like manual gear selectors. There's even an aftermarket for converting/hiding PRNDL shift gates to look like manual shifters.

Sounds like a good theft deterrent, in the USA at least. BTW it had already been used by Alfa Romeo in the 156.

[Piotrsko]

I don't agree with the paddles argument. If I dont use the clutch, the car wont move. The slush box idiots dont even have a clutch pedal.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Piotrsko

I don't agree with the paddles argument. If I dont use the clutch, the car wont move. The slush box idiots dont even have a clutch pedal.

No wonder some cars with a stick-shift and no clutch pedal were often labelled as a "semi-automatic" instead of manual.