2020 Silverado Diesel 3.0 EPA Rated...

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by slowmover

An empty little diesel might hit 40.

30 & 20 as I cited is solo. But not empty. The high cylinder pressure makes a diesel less sensitive to added weight (to a point). I can add almost 1k in weight and not change a baseline MPG figure.

Besides, if the trucklet can’t carry half the payload, it’ll make two trips. Size or weight.

30 & 20 is fair because it’s already beneath potential. Like everyone else, I’ll be interested if we ever have a number set to work with (scaled weight tickets to isolate true payload — and a pic to show aero — plus constant use of cruise control over a described course).

For this and other private ventures, it’s like pulling teeth. I doubt very much we will ever see it. No scale tickets? Invalid MPG. CC use not constant? Invalid MPG. Failure to describe course & conditions plus a pic? Invalid MPG

Conditions MUST be such that the fuel burn really doesn’t change from driver to driver. The absolute number isn’t important.

.

But the gas version doesn't hit 20 doing all the things you lay out. If you want to just compare EPA vs EPA fine, but most likely the diesel will beat the EPA on average and the gas will fall short, at least that's what you will see 10,000 times on fuelly.com.

the 6.2 for the same price has less payload and trailer rating, the 5.3 for $2500 less has slightly more payload and tow rating but we are talking a few hundred pounds, both beat the payload on my old 2004 2500 Cummins Ram.

Like I said IF you were buying a new Chevy 1500 pickup (and millions will) I think the 3.0 diesel option is a no-brainier. Maybe you disagree with pickups in general, but obviously it is the best choice for a bunch of people judging by sales numbers. You may not think so, but whenever people are spending their own hard earned money, unlike say something the government does, I have to trust that it is the best thing available to do the things they want to do with it.

[Hersbird]

Still no EPA numbers for the 2020 Ram ecodiesel but the pricing is out and they have trimmed some fat on it. $3300 over a base 5.7 but $6615 less than any 1500 diesel from GM
https://jalopnik.com/the-2020-ram-15...und-1837302479

[Xist]

The full-sized pickup I saw on its roof in front of a convenience store on a 35 MPH street, do you think a car likely flipped it over?

Last week I saw a semi on its right side on the left shoulder. Do you think it wandered and overcorrected?

[skyking]

none of the solo figures matter to me, at least. I am concerned about towing performance, and there an I-6 diesel simply smashes the gassers. Nobody with a gas truck talks about much more than 10 MPG towing. The diesels get significantly better MPG towing equivalent trailers.

[skyking]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

Still no EPA numbers for the 2020 Ram ecodiesel but the pricing is out and they have trimmed some fat on it. $3300 over a base 5.7 but $6615 less than any 1500 diesel from GM
https://jalopnik.com/the-2020-ram-15...und-1837302479

The ecodiesels that my dodge forum members report about have less than stellar reliability, and some really expensive repair bills.
I would not touch the v-6 myself.

[Ecky]

Originally Posted by skyking

none of the solo figures matter to me, at least. I am concerned about towing performance, and there an I-6 diesel simply smashes the gassers. Nobody with a gas truck talks about much more than 10 MPG towing. The diesels get significantly better MPG towing equivalent trailers.

Agree 100%. I had an F150 and a smaller Honda both for a while. It wasn't terribly important what fuel economy the F150 got as a solo commuter, as when I was commuting, it was the vehicle left sitting in the driveway. The F150 was only used to move things around I couldn't fit in my car, and it was far better at moving those things around more safely, quickly and easily.

Eventually I got a trailer to pull behind my car, and it allowed my car to do 98% of what I might use a pickup truck for. Not 98% of what a pickup is capable of, mind you, but I didn't need a truck sitting in my driveway anymore. For those who move thousands of pounds of bricks, horse trailers, farm equipment and large quantities of construction materials, a pickup truck is a no-brainer, but it's very seldom I ever need to move something I can't comfortably pull behind my car so I have no business owning a pickup.

As for the "pickups are safer because they're heavier", it irks me that it's true, but it's only true to an extent. Hit a tractor trailer or immovable barrier and a pickup fares no better than a car. Hit someone else in a smaller vehicle and you're likely safer in a pickup. So, unfortunately, there's a lot of incentive for people to buy bigger and heavier vehicles, to out-compete in mass for accident safety. If there weren't so many people commuting in trucks, there would be less reason to buy a truck, at least from a safety perspective.

[skyking]

I avoid driving my truck except for when I have a load to haul. I have a TDI beetle for most things, and took the back seat out and planked the back floor with plywood and put in some tie down straps. I have a hitch but no trailer for it yet.
I drive the truck approximately 4000 miles a year, mostly vacationing with the 5th wheel or on some really icy roads. I have a set of studded snows for it and in 4wd it is really nice on the ice.

[oldtamiyaphile]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

The physics part I do understand, a rollover is a greater possibility, but so is a greater survival in every other kind of collision. There is no physics that helps a low mass come out well in a collision with a greater mass.

50% of US fatalities are single vehicle roll overs. All those statistics bought their 'safe' SUV to protect themselves from 'the other guy'. In a twilight zone style twist THEY were the other guy...

A Fiat 500 (a basic economy car) stops in 35m from 62mph, vs 55m+ for your average pickup. A simple bend in the road can quickly become an emergency.

Driving a big vehicle is simply less safe for everyone, including those in said big vehicle.

Buyers of these tend to arrive at the conclusion and then work backwards towards their 'justification'.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by Ecky

Agree 100%. I had an F150 and a smaller Honda both for a while. It wasn't terribly important what fuel economy the F150 got as a solo commuter, as when I was commuting, it was the vehicle left sitting in the driveway. The F150 was only used to move things around I couldn't fit in my car, and it was far better at moving those things around more safely, quickly and easily.

Eventually I got a trailer to pull behind my car, and it allowed my car to do 98% of what I might use a pickup truck for. Not 98% of what a pickup is capable of, mind you, but I didn't need a truck sitting in my driveway anymore. For those who move thousands of pounds of bricks, horse trailers, farm equipment and large quantities of construction materials, a pickup truck is a no-brainer, but it's very seldom I ever need to move something I can't comfortably pull behind my car so I have no business owning a pickup.

As for the "pickups are safer because they're heavier", it irks me that it's true, but it's only true to an extent. Hit a tractor trailer or immovable barrier and a pickup fares no better than a car. Hit someone else in a smaller vehicle and you're likely safer in a pickup. So, unfortunately, there's a lot of incentive for people to buy bigger and heavier vehicles, to out-compete in mass for accident safety. If there weren't so many people commuting in trucks, there would be less reason to buy a truck, at least from a safety perspective.

If:

1). It weighs more than 4K, it’s a detriment to safety.
2). If wheelbase is above 122”; same.
3). Live axle? Either end?; same
4). High center of gravity?; same

Trucks roll. Trip hazards aren’t even considered, yet account for the majority of single vehicle SERIOUS accidents (potholes, curbs, camber changes; trailer sway, etc). The list isn’t short. Staying upright isn’t a given.

Size is like believing a dually is more stable. Ha! They’re even worse.

Tall & Heavy is a problem. There’s almost nothing a semi-tractor can do per accident avoidance, for example. It isn’t ever safer except in a limited number of situations. And only then if the driver doesn’t screw up. I’ve seen men with forty years experience lose control and roll when tires on the edge dropped 2” to the dirt.

That people buy pickups “reason” that cars ain’t so comfortable any more. And Americans are plain fat.

Their driving already tells you they don’t care about their own health, much less anyone else’s. So what they buy isn’t any trustworthy marker.


.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by skyking

none of the solo figures matter to me, at least. I am concerned about towing performance, and there an I-6 diesel simply smashes the gassers. Nobody with a gas truck talks about much more than 10 MPG towing. The diesels get significantly better MPG towing equivalent trailers.

Percentage of engine hours being worked? The average RV’er vacations 5k miles per year. Most of that is solo. 2.5k miles of a 20k Miles annual fuel bill doesn’t pay.

Besides, most trailers don’t need a truck. The better trailers are literally more stable than a truck. The truck BECOMES the accident-initiator. And all the other annual miles for the family are in a high risk vehicle.

None of that computes.

As to a business owner, he has to have VERY high annual miles in a prescribed period before it pays to go diesel. Diesel hasn’t been the better choice in fifteen years. Fleet owners have already returned to gasoline in droves. Cheaper to buy and maintain. The fuel offset isn’t great enough.

And gassers are running higher compression than before. Turbocharging. Cylinder pressure is what makes towing easier. With the 8 & 10 speed autos, gassers don’t fall off the curve anymore. Timing and fuel delivery is RADICALLY different than in 1996 or 1976.

Yeah, this little I-6 diesel looks great. But it won’t be for a lower cost per mile with an under 200k lifespan for the original owner.

Diesel tech, like gasser tech was fine circa MY 2000. Should have been left alone. The price is far too high and the lifespan is shorter. Makes no sense. Doesn’t compute.

.