2023 Toyota Prius - WOW!

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Subsidies for wealthy folks buying new EVs, of course.

I don't get involved in politics for this reason. Anything one side does that involves money is automatically labeled as "corruption" by the other.

Whether it's the government asking for more money or giving out more money, it's all "corruption" depending on who you ask.

Nothing is or can ever be fair for everyone. The rich usually have more leverage than the poor, but sometimes things unfairly favor the poor over the rich too.

Personally I don't care. I'm not losing sleep over the government giving out money to rich people or poor people or just any people. If I can benefit from it, good. If not, who cares.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

Personally I don't care. I'm not losing sleep over the government giving out money to rich people or poor people or just any people. If I can benefit from it, good. If not, who cares.

Yeah, that's how it perpetuates. Nobody cares about ignorant corruption so long as half the time it's on their side.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Yeah, that's how it perpetuates. Nobody cares about ignorant corruption so long as half the time it's on their side.

I don't think it's half the time on my side. Maybe it is, I haven't done the math.

It's not that I don't care about the possible effects. I just don't see how I can believe either side nor would I know of a solution even if I thought one side was right.

All I know is I've been in a hurricane, twice was in a car that almost got lifted by a tornado and in one of those occasions the car got smashed to pieces with baseball sized hail with me and my family in it, have been in two storms that knocked out all internet and phonelines for days, live in an area people are saying has been in a +20 year drought, frequently the whole valley (or state) gets smoked out from wild fires, had friends and family die from COVID, had children in the family orphaned from both their parents dying, peronally know people that live in Ukraine that are severely affected by the war, etc.

Is giving rich people $7,500 to buy EV's going to fix all that? Probably not, but nobody agrees whether it's helpful for something or not. So what can I do? You're not going to convince me this is corrupt and we need to do something about it. And nobody is going to convince me it's not corrupt either.

[freebeard]

The hard lessons we learned in the 1960s are mostly forgotten.

One was "To fight it is to feed it".

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

Or a Honda Civic with a stick shift...

Finding an un-riced one might be quite an endeavour.

[hayden55]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

I don't think it's half the time on my side. Maybe it is, I haven't done the math.

It's not that I don't care about the possible effects. I just don't see how I can believe either side nor would I know of a solution even if I thought one side was right.

All I know is I've been in a hurricane, twice was in a car that almost got lifted by a tornado and in one of those occasions the car got smashed to pieces with baseball sized hail with me and my family in it, have been in two storms that knocked out all internet and phonelines for days, live in an area people are saying has been in a +20 year drought, frequently the whole valley (or state) gets smoked out from wild fires, had friends and family die from COVID, had children in the family orphaned from both their parents dying, peronally know people that live in Ukraine that are severely affected by the war, etc.

Is giving rich people $7,500 to buy EV's going to fix all that? Probably not, but nobody agrees whether it's helpful for something or not. So what can I do? You're not going to convince me this is corrupt and we need to do something about it. And nobody is going to convince me it's not corrupt either.

Just do your own thing. We are 100% on the decline at this point. Half the time the rebate isn't even that helpful outside of that time a couple years ago. 90% of the time its gonna be a better deal to get an old Toyota or Honda anyways. I find even paying attention to the government at this point is a waste of time but its great at that or making you angry. Democrats and republicans are the same party. 90% of them are the party of the wealthy and are in fact not there to represent you.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Subsidies for wealthy folks buying new EVs, of course.

Ah - I was mixing up the thread where we were talking about credit scores with this one that included tax credits.

One can make the argument that tax credits are corruption. Of course that applies to all of them and then our entire tax code is founded on corruption. Every credit, rebate, and deduction is corruption. Social Security and Medicare taxes are corrupt. (Most people pay 15.3% of income yet billionaires pay a fraction of a percent) Capital gains taxes are corrupt. Married filing jointly is corruption. etc, etc.

Or we could see that the USA decided decades ago to discourage or encourage things in society with financial incentives and we use the tax code as a way to facilitate those financial transfers.

We continue to use the tax code for social engineering because it is popular with the public. Yes, most people can point out things they don't like but at the same time they will defend their own rebates, credits, and deductions. Talk about taking away the child tax credit or mortgage deduction and there would be a revolt. To fix the system you have to take them all away and there is very little support for that.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by JSH

We continue to use the tax code for social engineering because it is popular with the public.

Even if the total taxation is still more expensive than it could be with a simpler regulation, people get happy when they think they "hacked" the system to pay fewer than they were supposed to. They may be even more screwed, but that feeling of "having taken an advantage" is enough for most of them. In Brazil it's known as "Gerson Law", because of some cigarettes advertisement featuring a soccer player named Gerson claiming to enjoy taking advantage on everything.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

Even if the total taxation is still more expensive than it could be with a simpler regulation, people get happy when they think they "hacked" the system to pay fewer than they were supposed to. They may be even more screwed, but that feeling of "having taken an advantage" is enough for most of them. In Brazil it's known as "Gerson Law", because of some cigarettes advertisement featuring a soccer player named Gerson claiming to enjoy taking advantage on everything.

Brilliant observation. It's the same mechanism at work when products are "on sale". Psychologically we feel like we've got a good deal when something manipulates our expectation that it would have cost more.

I thought about starting a product line that intentionally mocks this absurd quirk in human choicemaking. I'd have labels that say "compare with a price of 1 billion dollars", or "product contains no anthrax". All those marketing gimmicks that really say nothing about the product, or the value of it.

Jason points out why we have the absurdity we do, and I maintain a consistent rational perspective that I'm against ALL of the special interest parts. Name anything in the tax code, including the things I greatly benefit from, and I'm against it.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

Even if the total taxation is still more expensive than it could be with a simpler regulation, people get happy when they think they "hacked" the system to pay fewer than they were supposed to. They may be even more screwed, but that feeling of "having taken an advantage" is enough for most of them. In Brazil it's known as "Gerson Law", because of some cigarettes advertisement featuring a soccer player named Gerson claiming to enjoy taking advantage on everything.

Brilliant observation. It's the same mechanism at work when products are "on sale". Psychologically we feel like we've got a good deal when something manipulates our expectation that it would have cost more.

I thought about starting a product line that intentionally mocks this absurd quirk in human choicemaking. I'd have labels that say "compare with a price of 1 billion dollars", or "product contains no anthrax". All those marketing gimmicks that really say nothing about the product, or the value of it.

Jason points out why we have the absurdity we do, and I maintain a consistent rational perspective against ALL of the special interest parts. Name anything in the tax code, including the things I greatly benefit from, and I'm against it.