Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-22-2020, 12:42 PM   #1 (permalink)
Engine-Off-Coast
 
Natalya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 551

Red 2000 Insight (2017 through 2019) - '00 Honda Insight 5MT
90 day: 64.72 mpg (US)

Red 2000 Lithium Insight (2020) - '00 Honda Insight LTO
90 day: 81.09 mpg (US)
Thanks: 215
Thanked 297 Times in 169 Posts
Question 87 Octane Ethanol Free or 90 Octane Ethanol Free??

Not about the dollars, all about the numbers. Gotta get those MPG numbers up.

I'm driving a 2000 Insight with LTO conversion.

So Ethanol Free >> Ethanol for the MPG numbers, but which octane should I be buying? Some gas stations near me have 90 others have 87.

On my fuel log I track the gas type used. That's the 2020 log, you can find my older log (Pre-Lithium) in there as well.


Last edited by Natalya; 04-22-2020 at 01:41 PM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Natalya For This Useful Post:
Ecky (04-23-2020)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 04-22-2020, 09:37 PM   #2 (permalink)
home of the odd vehicles
 
rmay635703's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere in WI
Posts: 3,280

Silver - '10 Chevy Cobalt XFE
Thanks: 340
Thanked 646 Times in 481 Posts
In theory if you can find non-oxygenated ethanol free in a lower octane it should give the best fuel economy. (Iíve only seen it in MN)

Historically there were some comments that the Insight required higher octane overseas but generally 87 has more energy content.

Not sure which would win out, I guess if money is no object throw in some 0w16 oil and dose the tank with some MMO and run a separate tank of each.
Iím leaning toward 90 winning but only by a hair

Will be interesting to see your results.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2020, 12:03 AM   #3 (permalink)
Engine-Off-Coast
 
Natalya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 551

Red 2000 Insight (2017 through 2019) - '00 Honda Insight 5MT
90 day: 64.72 mpg (US)

Red 2000 Lithium Insight (2020) - '00 Honda Insight LTO
90 day: 81.09 mpg (US)
Thanks: 215
Thanked 297 Times in 169 Posts
I have 0W-16 in the engine, what is MMO?

It's hard to get conclusive fuel tank results because of factors like weather and traffic. My tanks vary greatly. Random things like, did I forget to activate my clutch switch on the high way (to keep it from regening in lean burn if the SoC gets low) a couple times, have very large effects.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2020, 08:48 AM   #4 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Russellville, KY
Posts: 87

Little Blue Fuel Sipper - '16 Nissan Versa SV Sedan
Team Nissan
90 day: 51.73 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4
Thanked 25 Times in 19 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalya View Post
what is MMO?
Marvel Mystery Oil
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2020, 04:48 PM   #5 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Ecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Vermont
Posts: 3,950

Gaptooth (retired) - '00 Honda Insight
Team Honda
Gen-1 Insights
90 day: 54.26 mpg (US)

Such Fit - '07 Honda Fit Sport
90 day: 41.27 mpg (US)

Connect - '15 Ford Transit Connect XL
90 day: 25.19 mpg (US)

K-sight - '00 Honda K-sight
Team Honda
90 day: 44.74 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,707
Thanked 1,671 Times in 1,065 Posts
To my knowledge 90 should not make any more power unless the ECU can specifically detect it and adjust ignition timing for it.

Typically engines with high compression can have knock when above ~80% load, and the Insight has pretty high compression. It also has a knock sensor. If the sensor detects knock, it'll pull a few degrees of timing, which affects both power and fuel economy. I believe any knock detected also throws a CEL but I'm not certain if there's a threshold (above zero) for that. But, typically, an engine will not knock on the octane it's rated to have, and if it's not knocking, and the ECU isn't pulling timing to get rid of the knock, higher octane shouldn't help economy because it only really provides more resistance to knock.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2020, 04:49 PM   #6 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Ecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Vermont
Posts: 3,950

Gaptooth (retired) - '00 Honda Insight
Team Honda
Gen-1 Insights
90 day: 54.26 mpg (US)

Such Fit - '07 Honda Fit Sport
90 day: 41.27 mpg (US)

Connect - '15 Ford Transit Connect XL
90 day: 25.19 mpg (US)

K-sight - '00 Honda K-sight
Team Honda
90 day: 44.74 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,707
Thanked 1,671 Times in 1,065 Posts
How is the LTO conversion?
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2020, 11:46 AM   #7 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: California
Posts: 352

Tahoe 2020 - '08 Chevy Tahoe H
90 day: 20.75 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 76 Times in 70 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalya View Post
Not about the dollars, all about the numbers. Gotta get those MPG numbers up.

I'm driving a 2000 Insight with LTO conversion.

So Ethanol Free >> Ethanol for the MPG numbers, but which octane should I be buying? Some gas stations near me have 90 others have 87.

On my fuel log I track the gas type used. That's the 2020 log, you can find my older log (Pre-Lithium) in there as well.
since it has VVT buy the highest octane you can afford you will be able to pull a higher timing on it

with 87 i barely get 18.5/18.5

91 octane 23/31.2mpg it's able to pull a tight timing of upto 42 degrees advancement with it

it's normally around 27-35 degrees on average

with 87 oct 12.5 degrees advancement is where it tops out at retards the timing in AFM mode to about -2 to -12 degrees it would also rapid flip flop between v8 and v4 (sure that can;t be good for the engine)

it's more likely to search for gears with 87 octane

Last edited by Tahoe_Hybrid; 04-28-2020 at 11:56 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2020, 03:11 PM   #8 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Ecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Vermont
Posts: 3,950

Gaptooth (retired) - '00 Honda Insight
Team Honda
Gen-1 Insights
90 day: 54.26 mpg (US)

Such Fit - '07 Honda Fit Sport
90 day: 41.27 mpg (US)

Connect - '15 Ford Transit Connect XL
90 day: 25.19 mpg (US)

K-sight - '00 Honda K-sight
Team Honda
90 day: 44.74 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,707
Thanked 1,671 Times in 1,065 Posts
Variable Valve Timing (VVT) is not ignition timing (spark plug timing). VVT would not indicate an engine's ability to benefit from higher octane, and would not allow changing any variables affected by higher octane.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2020, 06:53 PM   #9 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
redneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: SC Lowcountry
Posts: 1,326

Geo XL1 - '94 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Boat tails and more mods
90 day: 72.22 mpg (US)

Big, Bad & Flat - '01 Dodge Ram 3500 SLT
Team Cummins
90 day: 21.13 mpg (US)
Thanks: 178
Thanked 1,099 Times in 527 Posts
.

Octane (number) is only relevant to compression ratio. (Pre ignition)

The additive package is whatís really relative to any performance gains.

Go to a race track or airfield and buy gas. (110 octane race gas or 130 avgas)

Currently (approximately) around $4-6 per gal.

Youíll see what real gas can do...

When I was young and spilled some gas you dare not light a cigarette or create a spark unless you didnít care about your eyebrows. Now you almost have to hold the flame to it to make it burn.

How things have changed.

Petroleum Companies figured out how to extract the chemical compounds in consumer grade fuel for other products (more profit) while leaving the bare amount necessary for ignition in a internal combustion engine.

There is a silver lining with todayís E85 though. One can build a high hp , high compression engine (15 to 1) to easily take advantage of the high Octane number (108) .

Research where your fuel comes from. As there can be noticeable differences. Brand names usually have their own storage tanks (additives) that they pull from but not always. No name gas stations usually get whatever is available through the bulk distributor. (Crap shoot)

Seriously, try some race or avgas and let us know what happens.




>
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to redneck For This Useful Post:
Ecky (04-28-2020)
Old 04-29-2020, 10:09 AM   #10 (permalink)
Somewhat crazed
 
Piotrsko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: 1826 miles WSW of Normal
Posts: 1,102
Thanks: 79
Thanked 292 Times in 248 Posts
Hate to tell you this but AVGAS is heavily leaded, will clog a cat in one tankfull. Probably the same for race gas, but I'm otherwise qualified.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com