8th Generation Civic - EX vs Si

[Slow_s10]

Ok so the bottom line is I have finally had enough of my gas sucking rattle trap Oldsmobile Bravada and I am ready to move onto something new...ish. I have pretty much zero'd my focus down to getting an 8th generation Honda Civic Sedan. I have been looking for a while and most of the ones that come up are for sale by dealers and are just too far out of my price range. However I have been able to find 2 cars which are currently for sale by owner that pretty much meet every requirement that I have.

The main difference is one is an EX with an automatic and the other is an Si with a 6 speed manual.

Now I am just going to throw this out there up front, I am not looking for world beating fuel efficiency from a new car (otherwise I would just get a hybrid) I just want something that is going to be very reliable overall and considerably more fuel efficient then my Bravada. Which honestly for me initially ruled out the Si model Civics for as when I looked up their EPA rated average fuel efficiency it was only like 23 mpg. But after stumbling onto a thread on another forum the vast majority of Civic Si drivers in real world use seem to be getting around 27~28 mpg on average. Not to mention almost a hundred people reported averaging over 37 mpg! The first thing I thought was that maybe it was a statistical fluke but this was a poll of over 3,500 Civic Si owners so those results seem fairly realistic.

But honestly the truth is I really want a manual transmission car, mainly because they are more fun, and to me they are just much more reliable in the long run. Not to mention I know it will be much easier to squeeze out better fuel efficiency with one in general. I mean honestly if I could just find an EX with a manual transmission in my price range I would probably jump all over it but those seem to be quite few and far between. So assuming everything else is the same between the two cars (aside from the price) with the choice between an automatic equipped EX or a Manual Si all I want to know is does it sound unreasonable to assume if I did get the Si that I should probably be able pull down efficiency numbers close to the automatic EX (28~30mpg) by just using some common sense driving techniques and a little hypermiling? For what it's worth this is not an insignificant question, lowering my monthly fuel cost is a significant factor in whether or not I will actually be able to afford a new car.


Oh and I am sure some of you probably saw the price comment and are thinking just get the cheaper EX model because you will never get the same return from a car that costs more and is less fuel efficent in general... But the Si is actually the one that is less expensive, by over $1000 which is the main reason that I am wrestling with this decision. But any comments or suggestions that anyone has would be welcome, especially from anyone who has owned either car. I am planning to look at both cars in person this weekend and I am really hoping to go ahead and make a purchase by next week.

Thanks in advance guys!

[PaleMelanesian]

The Si also has a bigger engine. The gear ratios in the manual are much shorter, making the engine turn higher rpms at the same speed. So it's a double negative to fuel economy. Given those two choices, I think I'd go with the auto EX despite my love for manuals. It'll give you better mileage with "common sense driving and a little hypermiling". The Si might be able to beat it with all-out-effort hypermiling, but will likely fall short with anything less.

[night9]

From my experience, being stuck with an automatic for my girlfriend, I would go with the manual transmition over the automatic. Even if the Si has a bigger engine. It gives you the opportunity to do more pulse and glide and engine off coasting. Or you could just wait and keep looking.

[Slow_s10]

I would definitely concede that the engine and transmission are not as ideal for fuel economy as in the EX but to me that is a fair trade off for durability, at least in the case of the transmission.

But like I said before I am not looking for which one could potentially get the best economy per se. I am just wondering is it reasonable to assume that I should be able to meet or exceed the EX's EPA rated 28mpg. Not to mention saving over $1,000 up front would alone shave around 30 dollars off the monthly payment.

I am looking at this as a car that I intend to own for a very long time and as such reliability and long term cost to own are more important factors to me than which one gets outright better fuel efficiency.

[Daox]

I would wait to get what you really want.

[Slow_s10]

I have been looking since January... Tme only manual transmission sedan that has come up was older and more expensive than either of the ones I am considering now and was a LX which is a lower trim level. But trust me I would have no problem with an Si. It's even better than what I have been looking for and this paticular one is a screaming deal. Plus it's black which is something that I do really want, and it seems to be really hard to find black Civics.

[PaleMelanesian]

Consider a wider range of locations? The right car might be farther away, but it's a one-time trip vs driving it every day.

[Daox]

Then what are you asking us for? Go buy it.

[Slow_s10]

Well I went and actually looked at this car yesterday and I was definitely a little dissapointed. I guess I should have been expecting it since the price was so low but it was really rough. And then I drove the car. Mechanically it felt very sound the handling was very tight and crisp the shifter had a crazy short through and it felt like it had tons of power... Which made it seem like it would be a really fun car, but for what I need I think it just would be too agressive for me. I am just looking for a smooth comfortable daily driver and that definitely would not have been it. I mean It would physically work as a daily driver but honestly I would probably just end up getting in trouble with that car.

But honestly one of the biggest issues I had was driving it was me. I am just so used to driving stick shift cars based on the engine sound.. and this car was basically silent unless I was wailing on it, which is something I basically never really intend to do. I mean I'm sure I could get used to it after a while but it was just so weird.

But hopefully some time this week I will be going to look at the other Civic. I may have to give up on my dream of getting a manual transmission but after actually driving this car I think I might be ok with that.

[California98Civic]

If the 8th gen Civic Si has a sixth gear with ratio 0.0659 and a final drive 4.765 and my sixth gen DX coupe originally had a 0.702 fifth gear and a final drive 4.058, then your engine turns 3.14 revolutions on the freeway for every 2.85 in the older DX. Your engine will turn about 10% faster than the sixth gen DX. You will be in the 3000 rpm range at 65mph, I would guess. Taller tires would help.

Being able to cut the engine and glide is a key advantage of the manual. You'll likely get 10% FE improvement from that alone, maybe considerably more depending on conditions and your determination.

Still, if you are a highway driver and not devoted to hypermiling, the EX is a better choice in terms of FE.