Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-01-2013, 10:06 AM   #601 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 355

The Truck - '02 Nissan GU Patrol ST
Thanks: 5
Thanked 76 Times in 50 Posts
Thanks for that, I still need to play with this equation a bit more.
I've been reading a variety of things from Semi-Truck aero through to Belbouth design for engine air intakes, but one thing that struck a chord was rocket nozzle theory.
A perfect rocket nozzle will have maximum efficiency when gass departing is at the same pressure as the surrounding atmosphere, if it is higher it is wasted energy, when it is lower pressure it creates drag.
From this, in an abstract way I started to look at template theory as an inverted rocket nozzle, the ultimate goal is to leave the air behind the vehicle completely stationary, as if the vehicle had never been there.
This equation with the kick in the tail may well be in the vicinity, the rate of change in angle is ever decreasing and then reverses at the end so departure angle at the tail tip is 0, this goes in line with having 0 velocity and ambient pressure at that point.
Although most of us will never build a full perfect boattail, but understanding what one is will help us to build an effective Kammback or trailer canopy.
We know that perfection lies in the vicinity of the paramaters aerohead has provided, 2.5:1 total ratio, 1.78:1 tail ratio, 22-23° max angle etc., this has been proven experimentally numerous times, so this is the ballpark we need to play in. I think the final equation will incorporate natural constants of growth and decay and be completly logical when we find out what it is, till then keep discussing and debating to get ourselves closer.

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Tesla For This Useful Post:
aerohead (10-03-2013)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 10-03-2013, 05:56 PM   #602 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 16,314
Thanks: 24,440
Thanked 7,386 Times in 4,783 Posts
never been there

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesla View Post
Thanks for that, I still need to play with this equation a bit more.
I've been reading a variety of things from Semi-Truck aero through to Belbouth design for engine air intakes, but one thing that struck a chord was rocket nozzle theory.
A perfect rocket nozzle will have maximum efficiency when gass departing is at the same pressure as the surrounding atmosphere, if it is higher it is wasted energy, when it is lower pressure it creates drag.
From this, in an abstract way I started to look at template theory as an inverted rocket nozzle, the ultimate goal is to leave the air behind the vehicle completely stationary, as if the vehicle had never been there.
That's it in a nutshell.
If you string-line the streamline half body you'll notice that the pathway length of the tail is twice that of the forebody.
Which suggests that the deceleration ramp necessary for attached flow must provide an aerodynamic residence time over the aft-body which is twice the dwell time as that over the nose.
It's the premise for the area rule/sectional density.
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2013, 11:20 PM   #603 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
kach22i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 4,187
Thanks: 132
Thanked 2,809 Times in 1,973 Posts
Car Aerodynamics Part1 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


Another oldie:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bawangg...ream/lightbox/
__________________
George
Architect, Artist and Designer of Objects

2012 Infiniti G37X Coupe
1977 Porsche 911s Targa
1998 Chevy S-10 Pick-Up truck
1989 Scat II HP Hovercraft

You cannot sell aerodynamics in a can............
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2013, 11:25 PM   #604 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
kach22i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 4,187
Thanks: 132
Thanked 2,809 Times in 1,973 Posts
Mathematical Modeling of Europa Aerodynamics
Mathematical Modeling of Europa Aerodynamics

__________________
George
Architect, Artist and Designer of Objects

2012 Infiniti G37X Coupe
1977 Porsche 911s Targa
1998 Chevy S-10 Pick-Up truck
1989 Scat II HP Hovercraft

You cannot sell aerodynamics in a can............
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2013, 11:38 PM   #605 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 491

OurInsight - '06 Honda Insight
Thanks: 170
Thanked 69 Times in 44 Posts
If the "smoke" is coming from the right, are we to believe that the folks doing the test thought the "aerofoil" would be better with the pointed end into the wind?????
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jime57 For This Useful Post:
aerohead (10-15-2013)
Old 10-15-2013, 12:07 AM   #606 (permalink)
(:
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 12,762

Blue - '93 Ford Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 Ford F150 XLT 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Ford Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 honda gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Mercury Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,585
Thanked 3,555 Times in 2,218 Posts
I'm sure they put both models in both ways just to see what would happen.
__________________


  Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2013, 05:00 PM   #607 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 16,314
Thanks: 24,440
Thanked 7,386 Times in 4,783 Posts
Schl'o'rwagen backwards

It may be intentional,but the Schl'o'rwagen model is backwards in the tunnel.
Ooops! I should have scrolled down first.Obviously everyone sees the same thing.
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/

Last edited by aerohead; 10-15-2013 at 05:13 PM.. Reason: add oops!
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2013, 05:15 PM   #608 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 16,314
Thanks: 24,440
Thanked 7,386 Times in 4,783 Posts
'67 Lotus Europa

Did they publish a Cd for the Lotus CFD modeling? The car was originally reported at Cd 0.29.
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2013, 05:42 PM   #609 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
kach22i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 4,187
Thanks: 132
Thanked 2,809 Times in 1,973 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead View Post
Did they publish a Cd for the Lotus CFD modeling? The car was originally reported at Cd 0.29.
I did not see it at first glance, but it might be buried in there somewhere.

Overlay-image004_zpsd67536fb.jpg Photo by kach22i | Photobucket


One of the more interesting aero-template overlay's I've done to date.
__________________
George
Architect, Artist and Designer of Objects

2012 Infiniti G37X Coupe
1977 Porsche 911s Targa
1998 Chevy S-10 Pick-Up truck
1989 Scat II HP Hovercraft

You cannot sell aerodynamics in a can............
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 05:00 PM   #610 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 16,314
Thanks: 24,440
Thanked 7,386 Times in 4,783 Posts
1967 Lotus

Quote:
Originally Posted by kach22i View Post
I did not see it at first glance, but it might be buried in there somewhere.

Overlay-image004_zpsd67536fb.jpg Photo by kach22i | Photobucket


One of the more interesting aero-template overlay's I've done to date.
I believe Colin Chapman is responsible for the Europa.There are stories about him being strapped to the outside of a Lotus while it was driven so he could observe the airflow (presumably with a tuft wand) over the cars body.
He's also known for his low mass construction.

__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Maximum angle for boat tail? abcdpeterson Aerodynamics 80 11-03-2021 01:55 PM
Aerodynamic Streamlining Template Part-B aerohead Aerodynamics 8 05-31-2013 01:23 PM
LED Headlight captainslug DIY / How-to 82 11-15-2011 02:32 AM
Aerodynamic Streamlining Template: Part-A aerohead Aerodynamics 0 07-18-2009 03:37 PM
All items I scanned in the new product showcase dremd The Lounge 0 11-08-2008 05:14 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com