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Old 09-01-2021, 07:32 PM   #251 (permalink)
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The half-body runs a flat plate in proximity to the ground. This follows Morelli and Colani.

But stancing it would [slightly] cripple the aero, I was thinking more along the lines of turn-in on track days.

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Old 09-02-2021, 09:55 AM   #252 (permalink)
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I was under the impression that doubling the CoD increased on a flatbottom shape sealed from the ground, not a semi symmetrical raised leading edge at neutral lift point.
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Old 09-21-2021, 05:04 PM   #253 (permalink)
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Apthara killer.
https://insideevs.com/news/534555/el...iveries-start/
Yeah its a 1 seater but if you're in the market for a small, weird, enclosed, 3-wheeler type thing that actually exists. Well here you go.
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Old 09-21-2021, 07:40 PM   #254 (permalink)
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....for certain values of 'exists'.
Quote:
The company will hand over keys to select early reservation holders and the company’s first fleet owners at a special launch event scheduled for October 4 in Los Angeles.
How many units are they prepared to ship in the first year?


www.bonhams.com/auctions/17328/lot/435/

The biggest problem for me is that the Sparrow/Solo just looks goofy. The 20 year old one above sold for $8K.



nsideevs.com/news/445814/bricklin-3ev-25000-sandy-munro-tesla-parts/

Bricklin 3EV and Nobe are worthy competitors for second place behind Arcimoto.
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Old 09-21-2021, 09:10 PM   #255 (permalink)
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I'm going to say it's looks like these other guys are going to deliver a lot more units than apthara for 2021.
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Old 09-21-2021, 11:58 PM   #256 (permalink)
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Apparently Lucid Motors has a car already in the predicación stage that has an EPA rating of over 500 miles. Tom Maloughney says it's not because of the battery capacity but because of the efficiency of the car.

This goes back to what Sandy Munroe is saying: that in the world of EV's it's not going to be the battery technology or size of the battery that will win but who can make the most efficient car in every aspect (including aerodynamics and rolling resistance).

If you can double the range of current EV's through aerodynamics and weight reduction then you can throw in a battery that's half the size and about half the cost, that also charges in half the time and makes your common 120V outlet a more likely candidate for charging your EV without the need for an expensive EVSE install (especially if you don't have a garage, don't own your home or don't have an electric service that would meet the demands).
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Old 09-22-2021, 02:44 AM   #257 (permalink)
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Sandy can meet each one of those customers that would want to drive a car with such little utility as to achieve twice the efficiency of current EVs.

It's not like efficiency is an undiscovered secret to auto manufactures, yet Chevy still created the Bolt with a Cd of 0.31

If there were a market for highly profitable econotubes, the big manufacturers would have already leveraged their resources to tap it.
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Old 09-22-2021, 03:45 AM   #258 (permalink)
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The car industry has been based on the ICE for since, well, forever pretty much. With ICEV's the aero and rolling resistance aren't that important unless you're talking commercial vehicles, which also have other very important goal to meet besides efficiency of just one vehicle. Besides, with the ICE, the biggest fish to catch have been with engine efficiency. Going from 5% to 10% to 20% to 40% efficiencies have doubled, quadruped and octupled the fuel efficiency, with plenty of room still left to try to get even better efficiencies.

EV's are a completely different animal. True, the car industry is starting out with what they know works already in the ICEV world; sedans, hatchbacks, and most importantly SUV's and pickups, which is a smart move but doesn't necessarily mean that the future of the EV is what works and is popular today. If EV's started becoming a thing in the 80's people probably would have envisioned a future of EV minivans. In the 70's a future of EV station wagons. Or in the 50's a future of long square sedans. It's not like you can just change out carbureted electricity for injected electricity and get better mileage.

I also don't believe that making an ultra efficient vehicles has to render them cramped and impractical. I don't see the Aptera as being less practical than a Miata. Maybe a folding or extending tail would keep the body short and parkable while maintaining high efficiencies on the road for a bigger version of the Aptera.

But anyways, I think there are a lot of unknowns. Maybe you're right and in 30 to 40 years from now everyone will be perfectly happy driving around their SUEV's (sport utility electric vehicle) and will have their own set of 10 to 20kW charging cords on the front of their apartments, houses, in the streets and in their garages of course for all their vehicles and nothing else will have changed.

On the other hand, look at how other things have changed and have changed us. It wasn't that many years ago that smartphones didn't exist, or cell phones for that matter. And look at how we've changed our perception and acceptance of them. If your smartphone today looked and worked like a 1960's rotary phone, would you carry one around in your pocket? Today we look back at carbureted cars as old outdated technology, including their body design. Just because rounded, bumperless crossovers have become the latest and greatest doesn't mean that in 20, 30 or 50 years from now they still will be the latest and greatest.

A lot of people still aren't convinced that an EV is going to be their next vehicle. What will make them change over? Making EV's more expensive than ICEV's for a longer foreseeable future, making you have to pay perhaps as much as a few thousand dollars so you can charge it and then still have a limited range and long charging times all for what? For not having to do oil changes even though you'll still have to take your car in to get the tires rotated?
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Old 09-22-2021, 10:18 AM   #259 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary View Post
A lot of people still aren't convinced that an EV is going to be their next vehicle. What will make them change over? Making EV's more expensive than ICEV's for a longer foreseeable future, making you have to pay perhaps as much as a few thousand dollars so you can charge it and then still have a limited range and long charging times all for what? For not having to do oil changes even though you'll still have to take your car in to get the tires rotated?
People tend to consume as much as they can afford. That's why consumption and wealth are inextricably related. Wealthy people are also more willing to pay for convenience.

If the Aptera can't cost significantly less than vehicles with 4 wheels, then only those who really want to virtue signal their moral superiority and favor with Gaia will purchase them. The thing is, the truly devoted believers don't own any vehicle, and ride a bicycle or walk or share a ride with others. To them it's more important to live their beliefs rather than to reap the social reward of pretending to live their beliefs.

There are zero people that will say the vehicle accomplishes everything they want optimally, and most affordably.

The only way EVs are disadvantaged compared to ICE is their battery. If it wasn't so inferior in most every measure to a fuel tank, we'd all be driving EVs.

EV purists let their theory of perfect get in the way of practical good. A PHEV bridges the gap by minimizing the huge deficiencies of a battery only vehicle. It cuts the size, cost, and weight of the battery down by 80%, yet holds the possibility of covering 80% of cumulative miles using electricity. It totally eliminates range anxiety. It solves the problem of slow refueling. Performance is increased compared to a straight ICE. It eliminates the need to plan the recharging stops for a trip. It eliminates the need for a dedicated high amperage outlet.

While everyone has focused their pure intentions on EVs, they have largely forsaken the opportunity to satisfy consumers who just can't bridge the EV gap yet.
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Old 09-22-2021, 01:03 PM   #260 (permalink)
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You could build 3 to 5 PHEVs for every 1 EV (some EVs like the Hummer you might be able to build 10 PHEVs). So while the Hummer may do 100% EV those 10 PHEVs will each probably do 50% EV and the other 50% ICE mostly will be long highway trips that that Hummer never even takes period as they take their 2nd or 3rd car instead. Even just using average 12,000 miles a year. So 1 EV goes 12,000 electric miles, while those 5 PHEV go 30,000 ev miles at least with 5 different families. When battery supply goes higher than demand then maybe all EVs will be workable but until then we need to most effectively use the battery supply. Any EV packing over 80 kW is abusing it IMO today.

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