Arcimoto, the real thing? ($12k tandem EV trike, 70/130 mi. range)

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by JSH

There isn't a requirement in the federal bill to keep the car for 2 years.

It wouldn't be hard to create a system that checks to see if a car is sold within 2 years - all that date is in the DMV database. The question is if it makes sense to spend the money to administer such a program. I really doubt it would.

As to snatching the money back - that would likely happen in the next year's income tax filing.

I was commenting on the Oregon used EV program. I haven't even fully read through the federal program since it's not a thing yet. If it becomes a thing, I'll get into the specifics of how it works. In the meantime, I'll harshly criticize the thing I don't understand yet, because I don't need to know the particulars to know it's fatally flawed.

[Xist]

Do you want to spend thousands more for a used EV from a dealership just so you can get a credit?

How much does it balance out?

Who cares if there are multiple previous owners before the law was written?

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Xist

Do you want to spend thousands more for a used EV from a dealership just so you can get a credit?

How much does it balance out?

Who cares if there are multiple previous owners before the law was written?

I generally recommend private party since there is so much savings to be had, and you're going to get a better sense for how the vehicle was treated by meeting the owner, and have a higher likelihood of the owner knowing of the issues and being honest about them. Dealers either aren't aware of issues and claim ignorance if there are some.

With EVs, the difference in sales price between a dealership and private party is much smaller, so there ends up being a price advantage buying from a dealer for those able to take advantage of the credit.

A 2017 Chevy Bolt might go for $16k private party, and $17k at a dealer.

The older the vehicle, the greater the effect of the credit. A 2011 Leaf can be had for $4,000 from a dealer, which makes it a $1,500 car after credit. A private party isn't going to sell that same car for $1,500.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Xist

Do you want to spend thousands more for a used EV from a dealership just so you can get a credit?

How much does it balance out?

Who cares if there are multiple previous owners before the law was written?

I generally buy a 3 year old car and keep it until it is 10 years old. There aren't at lot of 3 year old car for sale through private sellers. Most people that are changing cars after only 3 years are either trading at the dealer or leasing.

I don't qualify for this proposed federal used EV credit or the Oregon used EV rebate so for me it is more theoretical than practical.

The Federal government cares. They know that if they didn't place restrictions on a qualifying sale people would do exactly what you proposed and just keep buying and selling cars to harvest credits.

The Feds decided to control that by only giving a used car credit to the first used car buyer. The State of Oregon controls abuse by requiring the car to be kept and registered for 2 years.

[Snax]

Arcimoto released this today.

Up to $5k in rebates on a new one.

Regardless of the nuts and bolts of eligibility, that is a huge cut into the cost of entry and should drive sales nicely here.

[Xist]

How much out-the-door for a $4,000? They won't just raise prices again?

[redpoint5]

If you're supply (production) constrained, you raise price. If you're demand constrained, you reduce price. I would guess Arci will adjust price to maintain balance between supply and demand.

I doubt price increases would be a 1 to 1 relationship with the subsidies, especially since it's hit or miss who is eligible.

[freebeard]

Rebate not credit?

17.9-5K is pretty close to the $11.9K target price. My cars need to sell themselves.

I still want to hold out for lightweighted A-arms.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Rebate not credit?

17.9-5K is pretty close to the $11.9K target price. My cars need to sell themselves.

I still want to hold out for lightweighted A-arms.

No time like the present for your cars to sell themselves. Top of the used market so far as I can tell.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Xist

How much out-the-door for a $4,000? They won't just raise prices again?

The last vehicle I purchased (the 2014 Sportwagen) was $14K out the door. $13,630 purchase and $370 for title / plate / registration. That $370 is what the state actually charges. In my very first conversation I was VERY clear with the salesman that I would only negotiate out the door price and trade in was a completely separate transaction that would be negotiated independent of buying the Sportwagen.

In Oregon title and plates prices depend on rated mpg. An EV is $24.50 for a plate, $306 for registration and $187 for the title = $517.50 total. If you enroll in OReGO fee per mile the registration is $86 so $297.50 total. (Our registration is good for 2 years in Oregon)

So long story short - in Oregon out-the-door for an EV is $297.50 or $517.50 + whatever you negotiated for the price of the vehicle.

The $2500 rebate for low to moderate income households can either be processed by the dealer if you want the $2500 deducted from the sale price or you can do the paperwork yourself and send it to the state for a rebate check to be mailed directly.

Realistically you could expect to pay about $1800 to $2000 out of pocket for a $4,000 dollar used EV. If a dealer advertised a Leaf for $4000 and then tried to add $2500 in fees to the sale price you should immediately walk out of the dealership never to return.