Arcimoto, the real thing? ($12k tandem EV trike, 70/130 mi. range)

[freebeard]

You struggle because I haven't drawn a picture, IOW that's on me.

As the suspension works itself, the rectangle defined by the leading edges goes quadrilateral one way or the other. A curved piece could distort where a flat piece would not, would it not?

I hope Arcimoto releases or sells a 3D model in .obj or similar format.

[Hersbird]

The latest new green energy bill proposed that would restore EV tax credits to Tesla and GM also restores the 3 wheel EV credit that expired a long time ago. Below is what the original credit said, and the new changes just reinstate it until January 2027.



(g) Credit allowed for 2- and 3-wheeled plug-in electric vehicles
(1) In general
In the case of a qualified 2- or 3-wheeled plug-in electric vehicle-

(A) there shall be allowed as a credit against the tax imposed by this chapter for the taxable year an amount equal to the sum of the applicable amount with respect to each such qualified 2- or 3-wheeled plug-in electric vehicle placed in service by the taxpayer during the taxable year, and

(B) the amount of the credit allowed under subparagraph (A) shall be treated as a credit allowed under subsection (a).

(2) Applicable amount
For purposes of paragraph (1), the applicable amount is an amount equal to the lesser of-

(A) 10 percent of the cost of the qualified 2- or 3-wheeled plug-in electric vehicle, or

(B) $2,500.

(3) Qualified 2- or 3-wheeled plug-in electric vehicle
The term "qualified 2- or 3-wheeled plug-in electric vehicle" means any vehicle which-

(A) has 2 or 3 wheels,

(B) meets the requirements of subparagraphs (A), (B), (C), (E), and (F) of subsection (d)(1) (determined by substituting "2.5 kilowatt hours" for "4 kilowatt hours" in subparagraph (F)(i)),

(C) is manufactured primarily for use on public streets, roads, and highways,

(D) is capable of achieving a speed of 45 miles per hour or greater, and

(E) is acquired-

(i) after December 31, 2011, and before January 1, 2014, or

(ii) in the case of a vehicle that has 2 wheels, after December 31, 2014, and before January 1, 2021.6

[redpoint5]

...so we can expect the price of EVs to go up around then, too.

[Snax]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

(i) after December 31, 2011, and before January 1, 2014,

What?? That part makes zero sense. Hoping it is a typo.

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by Snax

What?? That part makes zero sense. Hoping it is a typo.

That is the line that is amended by the new bill to say purchased between Dec 2021 and Jan 2027 although it won't be applicable until actually passed so the purchase will have to happen after bill is signed into law.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-...0C527660891B40

Actually maybe it would apply back to dec 2021, that part is confusing

[JSH]

Looking at the bill it appears the cap is still 200K vehicles but the tax credit phaseout extends to 600K vehicles instead of based on quarters.

The most interesting thing to me is a tax credit for $1250 + $208.50 per kWh over 4 for used plug-in vehicles. The credit starts phasing out at a income of $30K for an individual and $60K for a couple. The sale price of the car has to be below $25K and it has to be at least 2 years old. The credit can't exceed 30% of the sale price.

That said it sounds way better than it really is. A married couple making $60K and taking the standard deductions would only owe $3829 in Federal income tax. Add 1 kid and it drops to $1829. Add a 2nd kid and they owe no taxes and get no credit.

[redpoint5]

What do you mean it sounds way better than it is? The whole thing sounds retarded. There are finite used EVs. Subsidizing the purchase of used EVs doesn't magic more of them into existence, it merely drives the sales price up... so I guess the end result is used car dealerships make more profit. That's exactly how I want my tax money to be spent; getting sleazy car salesmen into nicer boats.

Why are we subsidizing the sales of foreign auto manufacturer's vehicles? Why should my tax dollars help VW sell more indulgences?

There was an opportunity to correct serious flaws in the initial implementation, but instead we're doubling down on dumb. If I tried real hard I couldn't come up with a worse idea; it just comes naturally to some I suppose.

I'm for sure going to figure out how to game whatever comes of this. I was planning to purchase a used EV anyhow, but now I'll hold off and see how I will profit from it.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

What do you mean it sounds way better than it is? The whole thing sounds retarded. There are finite used EVs. Subsidizing the purchase of used EVs doesn't magic more of them into existence, it merely drives the sales price up... so I guess the end result is used car dealerships make more profit. That's exactly how I want my tax money to be spent; getting sleazy car salesmen into nicer boats.

I say it sounds better than it is because it is still a tax credit. The more you make the more you get until the cutoff.

Subsidizing the purchase of used EVs helps low and moderate income people buy a used EV. That is the point of the credit.

It doesn't drive up the sale price because the salesman doesn't know how much the buyer makes - at least they shouldn't until they are well into the buying process after the sale price has already been negotiated.

You can still find cheap used EVs in Oregon despite our $2500 tax rebate for low and moderately income people. (Which has quite a bit higher cut-off than the proposed federal credit)

[freebeard]

I say it sounds better than it is because it is still a tax credit. The more you make the more you get until the cutoff.

Doesn't sound good at all to me. If someone forced me to work I could bring in another $10K before I owe any taxes. I liked the direct rebate better.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Doesn't sound good at all to me. If someone forced me to work I could bring in another $10K before I owe any taxes. I liked the direct rebate better.

Yes, rebates are better for a lot of reasons compared to tax credits. The biggest issue with a tax credit is that the people that need to most help to afford an EV get nothing.

This tax credit is set up something like a bell curve.