Arcimoto, the real thing? ($12k tandem EV trike, 70/130 mi. range)

[freebeard]

If nothing else, it tells the price point the public wants. Meeting it is a whole 'nuther matter.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by freebeard

If nothing else, it tells the price point the public wants. Meeting it is a whole 'nuther matter.

The average new vehicle sells for $36,000. I think people would be plenty happy with a $25,000 EV

[Xist]

I am sure they would sell many, but there will always be people saying they need to haul eight people and the contents of their garage six hundred miles across a mountain range.

Not that you can do that with a $25,000 vehicle running on any fuel source.

[redpoint5]

I've been of that mindset too, that EVs aren't priced correctly.

Most people would consider an EV to be a local commuter car in a multi-vehicle family. Since it's viewed as having limited utility, the price needs to reflect that.

I'd be perfectly happy with a comfortable yet no-frills local commuter EV in the $20-$25k range. The Bolt comes pretty close to what I'd want, and I haven't checked out the new Leaf yet, but these cars need to cost a whole lot less.

It's too bad starting a car company is so darn expensive and difficult. A big name manufacturer could probably easily crank out something like the Acrimoto in volume for $9k. Considering the Nissan Versa can be had for $13k new, a barebones trike can't be too close in price or the general public won't be interested.

[JSH]

If you look at UTV prices a more reasonable MSRP for the ArcMoto is about $15,000 in volume production.

The 2020 Versa starts at $15,650. Add the CVT and it jumps to $17,295

[redpoint5]

Ah, well I got my info from a Car and Driver article.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...2019/?slide=10

Anyhow, I'd think a few bits of curved tubular steel and 1 less wheel would substantially reduce the cost over an intricately designed and machined unibody vehicle.

UTVs start around $3k and some seat many people. You'd think a 2-seater trike would be a piece of cake.

I built a reverse trike in highschool using tubular aluminum, custom machined bicycle wheels, lead acid batteries, and a 2hp DC motor and controller.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Ah, well I got my info from a Car and Driver article.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...2019/?slide=10

Anyhow, I'd think a few bits of curved tubular steel and 1 less wheel would substantially reduce the cost over an intricately designed and machined unibody vehicle.

UTVs start around $3k and some seat many people. You'd think a 2-seater trike would be a piece of cake.

I built a reverse trike in highschool using tubular aluminum, custom machined bicycle wheels, lead acid batteries, and a 2hp DC motor and controller.

That is the 2019 Versa. The new one is more. https://www.motortrend.com/news/2020...n-versa-price/

Curved tubular steel is cheap in tooling costs but expensive in labor. They make sense for low volume products.

Unibodies are very expensive to tool up but inexpensive to build and assemble because it is almost completely done by robots.

[redpoint5]

I figured machines had no problem manipulating tubular steel; didn't realize unibody was more their forte.

Well, consider a mass produced unibody Acrimoto then. These things should be cheap I tell ya!

...and model years always end up confusing me. Didn't know 2020 vehicles were out already in Q3 of 2019. Point is, if they could make a profit selling a $13k vehicle in 2019, they should be able to do so at a lower price point on a reverse trike, especially if they don't have to adhere to as much of the safety regs.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I figured machines had no problem manipulating tubular steel; didn't realize unibody was more their forte.

Well, consider a mass produced unibody Acrimoto then. These things should be cheap I tell ya!

...and model years always end up confusing me. Didn't know 2020 vehicles were out already in Q3 of 2019. Point is, if they could make a profit selling a $13k vehicle in 2019, they should be able to do so at a lower price point on a reverse trike, especially if they don't have to adhere to as much of the safety regs.

I doubt Nissan made a dime selling a base model 2019 Versa S for $13,355. It was a loss leader to allow them to advertise a low price then move the customer up market in the dealership. That base model has a manual transmission and no option packages available. Want an automatic and the option to customize? That 2019 Versa starts at $15,495.

[freebeard]

If you look at UTV prices a more reasonable MSRP for the ArcMoto is about $15,000 in volume production.

They're shipping product at $20,000. I never expected them to hit $12K, but I think $15K is reasonable.

The FUV chassis consists of a monocoque battery box/backbone frame with a tubular "upper frame" (NOT a roll cage because lawyers). The problem they haven't solved is sealing a door to a tubular frame. The tubing is cut and bent automagically, I don't know about the welding.

With the Edison2 there is fresh opportunity. The design starts saving weight and parts at the suspension.

https://www.autoblog.com/2013/04/14/...r-version-4-0/

Kuttner's primary focus was the Edison2 in-wheel suspension. "It starts from the suspension," he said. He described how their patented suspension significantly reduces mass, complexity, parts count, and enables a long list of advantages, which include the opportunity to design safer, better handling, more aerodynamic vehicles with unprecedented efficiency. "We believe we can replace the twist beam suspension, even in existing cars...but it will take time."

Imagine the FUV with Edison2 suspension, 3x19 wheels with i3 Ecopias, and the 80hp twin-motor axle from the Toyota RAV4.